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  #51  
Old 11-11-2007
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F1Edman F1Edman is offline
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

My experience was decidedly better than that of Revere’s. The LRS show was run by an amiable, albeit nervous French guy who owns half of the company (hence his nervousness!) There were ten participants on August 2nd, with varying degrees of experience. About half had little or no experience in a race car.

During Frenchie’s chalk talk he drew a picture of the steering wheel, carefully drawing each button on the wheel in different colors. Expecting a discussion about what each button does and when to them, he simply said, in his heavy French accent: “see these buttons? DO NOT TOUCH ANY OF THEM!” I wasn’t expecting to need to limit my pit lane speed or communicate to anyone, but it was pretty funny.

I would also say that the experience was made all the better for the Skippy’s involvement. Having never driven Road America before (I’m from the East!) it was fun to get back into the school car again and learn a new track. So the AM time was pretty much the half day Skippy experience.

After lunch, just as we were about to go out in the F1 car, it began to sprinkle rain. Frenchie got noticeably more concerned, and decided it best to wait a few minutes to see what the weather was going to do. Luckily it cleared and we were ready to go. The first guy out spun not once, but twice – the first time in full view of everyone – he jumped on the throttle too quickly exiting a turn and swopped ends but kept it on the tarmac . In general were discouraged from pushing too hard because if anyone went off and got gravel up into the engine and radiator areas, it could take an hour or more to clean out and get the car back on the track. So the fear of everyone getting pissed off at you kept most from pushing too hard.

The last guy spun too, out of sight of the rest of us, probably because he knew the course too well, and was the best driver of the group and so was pushing much harder than the rest of us (ahem…..Sterling? Sorry to rat you out).

The car was one of Damon Hill’s from his 1997 season with the TWR Arrows team, the year after he won the F1 championship with Williams. So if nothing else, it was cool to be able to say you drove the same car Hill did (albeit with a different engine). The engine was “slightly” detuned to “only” rev to about 12K as I recall, versus the full race trim 15K.

From my perspective, the car was pretty much what you would expect. Stupid fast acceleration – with breaking points coming up a hell of a lot faster than anything else I’ve driven (duh). The breaks were heavy and clearly never got close to operating temperature. Forget to downshift? It will do it for you. Clutch? Fugetaboutit except on the jump start in second gear. Bog the engine? Nope, computer keeps you above 5K RPM. Surprisingly, the car was easier to drive that I expected. If you wanted, you could tool around as if on a Sunday drive and the car wouldn’t balk (but who would want to do that anyway??) The one thing that stuck in my mind was during the fastest part of the (shortened) track after the kink, I thought the front end was hunting a bit, as if it were out of alignment, but I soon realized that minute, almost subconscious, movements of my hands on the wheel was causing it. In other words, the damn thing was on rails, and in more capable hands would have been smooth as silk.

After everyone finished, and the car was none the worse for wear, Frenchie was noticeably more relaxed, and joked around freely during the debrief. He was a really nice guy and was not at all like what was described above.

In summary:

4 laps? Of course would have liked more, but what the hell.

There was a lot of waiting for your turn to come up. They could have had two cars there to minimize the turn around time between drivers.

Having never driven Road America before, I was disappointed in not being able to drive the full course, but it I understand why they did it.

Pricey

So bottom line. Would I do it again – HELL YES!
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  #52  
Old 11-12-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

thanks for the report, very interesting..........and tempting

LOL the steering wheel diagram / admonishment
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  #53  
Old 11-13-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

I should finally relate my experience, i have been meaning to, but have been quite busy since then.

The day started like any other skippy school at RA, show up to the building at the entrance, sign in, and say hi to StevieD. There was another class already in session in the classroom when we got there, a half day intro to racing I believe. Once they finished in the class room, we filed in and took our seats. As Ed said about half, maybe more had no prior racing experience. StevieD was our teacher for the class, a class act as always. went over the basics like this was a normal intro to racing school. We talked line, weight transfer, etc. Then Pierre got up and addressed us. He was curious about our experience levels. He seemed very nervous, this was the first time he had taken one of his cars away from the home track in Vegas. He explained that this track was brutal on the cars and if an actual F1 race was held at RA, the cars would all be destroyed ( I guess they are more fragile than Champ cars ) He said he would go and watch us and make his decision on if we were to be able to drive the F1 car.

We then went out to do the intro in the school cars. I forgot how much fun they are, the H pattern is always fun to drive. We split into three groups, I was in Steve Welk's group, we then played follow the leader at slowly increasing speeds. After we finally got up to speed, we were done. A good time was had by all. Everyone did well, no one spun or had any problems that I saw. Once done we headed to Siebkens for lunch, an unexpected treat.

When we got back to the track Pierre had his real briefing with us. He explained about the car and not to touch any of the buttons on the steering wheel. He explained that 1st gear was disabled, and that to start they would push the car and then yell to us, we were to then drop the clutch and he engine would start. HE then went over the track layout. They had set up "braking points" using cone gates. These were to act in two ways, first to show you were to start braking and second to "guide" you on the proper line. There would be spotters out on the course and you if didn't obey the brake points thy would ask you to stop and have a chat with the guys in the pits. We would NOT, I repeat NOT be using the Kink , instead we would come out of the carousel and pull to the right of the track, jump on the brakes, take a hard left, then immediately back right and then you are pointed straight down the back straight. Although I understand the reasoning, it destroys the flow of the track in my eyes. Since this was the short-course, we would be using haybale as the last corner before the pits. I think this corner scared him more than any other as there is a retaining wall not far from the track and if you were to go off you might hit it! He proceeded to draw a MASSIVE wall at the corner and then wrote "DO NOT HIT" to illustrate his point.

We then went back own to the track where they rolled the car out. Very impressive. The car had the grooved slicks we are used to nowadays, even had ARROWS on the sidewall of the Bridgestones. To start the car they used 2 full diving tanks. ( 3000psi ) hooked to an massive air wretch that fit into the back of the car. It made one hell of a racket. They went through the first tank just to get the oil pressure up. then the second to start the car. The first driver had to warm up the car, basically sit with the car in neutral and keep the revs at 4K for ~2minutes. There was a bit of a delay between drivers, so much so that the skippy testers were out in between our runs. ( the nationals race was that weekend )

The first driver spun going into corner 1 ( 5 on the full track ) on his first pass. Sounded like he jabbed the throttle while still turning. Luckily he managed to not hit the wall. I believe he spun again on his last lap at the top oh the hill at 6. Besides that it was pretty quiet. Most guys took the car out with a ton of respect and treated it nice, thus it didn't bite them. Pierre wanted the least experienced drivers in the car first. He kept calling it an "experience"; we were going to experience a formula1 car, 700HP in such a light car is frightening, we shouldn't push to hard, etc.

I talked to him as the 4th guy went out and he sid he was nervous for me to go out since i had racing experience and that RA was my home track and thus I felt like I knew it. I proposed that I just go last because I wanted to do an additional lap or two. I don't think he wanted me to do more than the allotted laps, but agreed. I hung around saw a few National drivers i knew and chatted while waiting for my drive.

It was finally my turn, DFL in the car. I hoped that the tyres and brakes would be up to temp, they weren't. They strapped me in, toggled the steering buttons and started to push. As they pushed, they yelled to go, I dropped the clutch and it was running. a quick stab brought the revs up and i was at the first corner, turned in and rolled on the power. (A few people were trying to go full throttle as fast as they could, this would invariably lead to the traction control kicking in and the car bogging.) Up the hill toward 6, tapped the up shift lever with my finger into 3rd gear. Pretty impressive power up the hill. I broke a little later that the cones, the brakes worked well, but not nearly as well as I was expecting, still was slowed down more than needed for the corner. Then power up to the brake-gate for 7, i tried moderate brakes then turned and rolled on the power thru the apex and on to the hurrydowns... "Hey this is fun..." hard on the brakes into 8 then full throttle up to the carousel.

The carousel is my favorite corner on the whole track. in a skippy car you can play with the angle of attack through the corner. So i wanted to see if I had any under steer with the F1 car... NOPE. It was amazingl fast, almost scary fast. It pulled and I shifted through the corner and the front stuck right where i pointed it. Coming out of the carousel I had to remember to dive to the right and brake for the kink chicane. It is very strange to not drive that part of the track as i know it. So, hard on the brakes, still not to temp, but working well it seemed, then the left and right complex. As I exited the corner I was in i believe 2nd gear pointed down the back straight. "Okay" I thought, "lets see what this will really do..." I grabbed 3rd and went WOT. the sound from the intake above my head was deafening, I hit the rev limiter before i realized i had left. I grabbed 4th gear and it felt like my brain was still at the kink, while I was a third of the way down the straight. I clicked into 5th and the power was never ending. then I see the brake-gate for canada, hard on the brakes and several clicks on the paddle and the car is almost at a standstill. My brain having only just caught up to me as i hit the brake, was now 1000ft in front of me.
I turned, power through up to the missing bridge and braking points for haybale.

What a freaking lap!

The next few laps were more of the same, but the back straight I was ready for, I was able to be cognisant enough to up shift just before the red line. I tried to brake later and accelerate harder each lap. The car seemed like it was on rails and couldn't do anything wrong. I finished my 4th and final lap and continued on to my 5th. At this point I was starting to get comfortable in the car and figured I had my 4 laps in, so I would try to actually push on this lap. I did great until the exit of the carousel. I had but myself in "race" mode and was doing a flying lap... I forgot that I had to take the chicane at the kink until the last second. I darted to the right to make the gate and jumped very hard on the brakes. Then instead of turning in while rolling off the brakes I just turned. dumb move... the car eagerly swapped ends. I kept it on the track, even managed to put the clutch in and keep the motor running. However I had agreed with Pierre if at anytime I lost control of the car I would stop and wait for them to com check everything out. So i hit the kill switch and waited. While I waited I admired my beautiful, almost perfect X of tyre rubber on the pavement, nice and wide tyre marks, a deep black colour. I was pleased at how pretty they were, but not so pleased I made them. A few minutes later they showed up and I explained what happened, they gave me a push start and I got to take the kink, at a very reduced rate of speed since I as just accelerating. I did go WOT down the back straight one last time tho.

After I came in, we went back up and had a debrief in the classroom. Pierre was noticeably more relaxed and joking around with all of us.

I had a headache from the sound of the intake for the next 3 days... best headache ever!

Here is a link to my pictures from the event

I only wish I had video of my run.

It was an amazing day at the track, They said they were planning on going back to RA in the Spring. Revere, I think you would enjoy this, especially at RA.

All in all an absolute blast!


Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Edman View Post
The last guy spun too, out of sight of the rest of us, probably because he knew the course too well, and was the best driver of the group and so was pushing much harder than the rest of us (ahem…..Sterling? Sorry to rat you out).

Like I said, I left some pretty tyre tracks!
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  #54  
Old 11-13-2007
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Thumbs up Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Great report and nice pictures Stirling.
Sounds like a great if all too brief "experience" to have a taste of the performance envelope of an F1 car with that pedigree. Good stuff.
Thanks to Eddie for his report as well!
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Old 11-13-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Very cool Stirling, thanks for the report, puts me right there, must have been too much fun

I gotta ask......WOT = ? (WoT?)

Good pics too, but I didn't see one showing the nice tire marks you left. I think it's great you honked it enough to spin, did that do in Frenchie?
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  #56  
Old 11-13-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

My hat's off to you two who actually ponied up the $ to do this after it got less than a glowing review beforehand. Sounds like it was a blast, if a pricey blast!


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I gotta ask......WOT = ?
WOT = Wide Open Throttle baby!
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  #57  
Old 11-13-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdh View Post
I gotta ask......WOT = ? (WoT?)

Good pics too, but I didn't see one showing the nice tire marks you left. I think it's great you honked it enough to spin, did that do in Frenchie?
As Rosso said WOT = Wide Open Throttle

Pierre seemed nonplussed after my session.

I did want to go and take a pic of the tyre marks, but we didn't have time

One thing I forgot to mention above was the paddle shifters. Very sensitive, all it took was a light tap to be in a different gear. Also the speed fo the shift was impressive. Having gotten used to the speed advantage of the sequential box in the R/T over the school car, I was amazed at how much faster the car shifted. I got used to the paddles and i must say, that is the way we should all shift!
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  #58  
Old 11-13-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

I stuck around after the Skippy portion of the LRS F-1 'experience' just to see what was going to happen...Frenchie did his best to put the fear of God into everybody.

Pretty much after enthusiastic foreigner #1 spun it showing off for his fan club, everyone else just cruised it around.. Losta down time between runs.

Made my way down to Kanada Korner for Stirling's run and sure enough he was turning it on where it SOUNDED like a RACECAR.

Stirling sure gets the attaboy for actually putting some wellie to it!

Sure seemed like the $$$ to seat time ratio was a little steep...
But hey, where else are you going to get a chance to light off an actual F-1 car?

SD
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  #59  
Old 11-14-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

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...Frenchie did his best to put the fear of God into everybody. ...

SD
You mean something like, "Crashing is expensive and we don't recommend it"?
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  #60  
Old 11-14-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Given the circumstances, I'd say Pierre had good reason to be nervous.

The pucker factor would have to be significant for anyone whose entire program is based on putting people with modest or no racing experience behind the wheel of a single unique F1 car with a pedigree and not a lot of spares.

Don't think I've ever laughed harder than when sitting at a dinner table while Skipppy instructors described in side-splitting detail some of the very creative ways customers have eaten the crayons over the years.

Knowing what he knows about both racing and creative driving instruction interpretation I doubt Stevie Dee would take his ex-Damon Hill F1 car, detuned or otherwise and send it off around Road Atlanta in the hands of folks who've had a whole half-day of race training, at any price... Even with him as the instructor!

What could possibly go wrong?!

It's a bit like sending your drop dead gorgeous 16 year old daughter on 8 dates a day. The numbers indicate it's not a question of if but when something happened that would thrill the watchers of that reality show.

Pierre is risking his car to make fast money and gambling he can instruct and intimidate those willing to pay enough not to wad it up in a few laps. Interesting business model.
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  #61  
Old 11-14-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Would love the chance to drive one of these vinatge F-1 cars. I have to agree the price is way high for 4 laps with the French Legion ready to hit the kill switch at any point.


Any chance we might get another shot at this in the coming year with a tad bit more seat time?
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  #62  
Old 11-15-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Sounds like you ramped up to too much speed nice and responsibly. I did the program a few weeks later and nobody went as quick as it sounds like you did. Nice job. One guy in our group did spin and tag the wall to the inside of turn 8 track out and tweeked the rear wing a bit. Classic turn early with low eyes, not recognize it because of said condition, and of course go to power. "All of a sudden, I looked up and ..." TTO. They got it going again after a healthy delay.

There was a reporter there from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and he got the shot of the car up against the tire wall. Thankfully I had my back to the camera on the one they put in the paper.

Quote:
I admired my beautiful, almost perfect X of tyre rubber on the pavement, nice and wide tyre marks, a deep black colour.
THAT'S what those nasties at that bridge were from! I was working a few days after that and wondered how they got there. I'm always interested in the odd places tire marks show up after car club weekends and such.

Stirling, Stirling, Stirling...that's how sections of race track get named, you know. Vic Elford Bend, Stevie DeBeach.... Ahh, the Brinner Bridge does have a nice ring to it!

Sounds like a great ride and a great memory!

Pete
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