indy farce

[birkmama]

hello my dear skippy friends, I only just got online again. So apologies for storming ahead with this...who is to blame for this disaster that I even bore to watch...???

[OLDMAN]

Michelin!

OLDMAN

[sydude]

GRRRRIBIT!

[JonMiller]

Count my vote for Michellin.

I read about the possible boycott late last night, and immediately imagined a Minardi on podium, and chuckled to myself. What a sad day for the sport. For a second there, I though Schumi was going to do the unthinkable and take Rubens and himself out of the race when exiting the pits. What a doofus move that was.

[PT Cruiser]

I suppose this goes to show that SBRS isn't the only racing organization that runs into technical difficulties from time to time.

Nevertheless, I am just astonished that the FIA couldn't find a way to resolve the situation such that:

1) The Michelin drivers were not put at undue risk,
2) the Bridgestone teams ended up with some sort of advantage to reflect the fact that Bridgestone did its homework properly, whereas
Michelin did not.
3) the spectators got to see something that at least resembled a real
motor race.

If I were a spectator, I'd be asking for my money back. Heck, if I were Tony George, I'd be asking for the entire sanctioning fee back. Just unbelievable.

[jp56]

I suggest the fans who wish to make their feelings known, contact the following:

Michelin
46, rue du Ressort
63100 Clermont-Ferrand
France
www.michelinsport.com

FIA
8 Place de la Concorde
F-75008 Paris
www.fia.com

Formula One Management
6 Princes Gate
Knightsbridge
London SW7 1QJ
United Kingdom

[birkmama]

Thanks for the addresses. I think my first letter will go to the FIA. Whilst situated in France they to me are a synonyme for Max Mosley's rule. I have not understood any of their tire rules. Not the grooves, not the no-tire-change policy.

But it seems clear that F1 suffers from colliding interests of too many constituencies. If FIA were a leading organization then they should have reacted after the Barcelona GP (three punctures - 1 Michelin, 2 Bridgestone) but latest after the GP of Europe. It is not right to leave the decision to race to the teams. It puts them in an insolvable predicament.
Should McLaren have pulled Kimi two race ago? Well, had the suspension broken in the cool down lap, they would have earned huge accolades for preparing a race car to perfection. They didn't - were unlucky and got scolded.

In Indy they reacted, or better Michelin did. At that stage the only alternative to the farce would have been to execute a showrace outside of the rules. To me this is not a lot better than what actually did happen.

I do not blame Ferrari (anyone surprised??) for not agreeing to the chicane. Bridgestone had done their homework and Michelin could impossibly have know how exactly a whatever chicane would have affected tire durability. They didn't do their homework, the banking in turn 1 (I will refer to it as that since I highly doubt the track will soon be run in reverse direction) has been there for a couple years now. So they cannot go free of blame.

Imagine the inverse situation with Ferrari having the problem and asking for a change of the track layout. Anyone out there who believes that would have happened? I mean let's be real.

To be honest I applaud Michael for standing up to this disaster. He did his job, put on a good race unaffected by the circumstances and did not bother sending Rubens to the top step and let him get the majority of the boos. I understand and know that Michael is and always will be in the center of controversy, but believe he did pick his best option and I do not think that he needs either a tainted 84th victory nor the 2 extra points.

I feel like doing another poll...will there be F1 in the US next year?

[cdh]

Michelin had better rally it's enormous legal team, they have a lot of people to answer to. They release a statement at 5:00 AM SUNDAY MORNING saying their tires are unsafe for this race. I find it inconceivable that a solution could not have been arrived at sometime Friday or Saturday (come on, don't tell me they were unaware of the problem then). They knew that the IMS had been resurfaced/ground down and surely they could have tested the new surface well before the race week, they are a tire company after all!

Think about the repercussions:

1. Fans want money back so they sue T. George, Michelin & FIA
2. Sponsors didn't get what they paid for in air time, banner/billboard recognition, car decals, smaller audience as viewers and networks switched off the race, etc. so they sue everyone involved
3. T. George must sue Michelin & FIA, etc.
4. Michelin & FIA must counter-sue everyone involved

Once again, only winners = the vultures. Biggest losers = the great fans who were royally hosed. OK, OK, I am no legal eagle but I will be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't pan out this way

[dalyduo]

Considering how stubborn Tony George has been in his pissing match with Champ car while creating and running the IRL, its hard to imagine that he’ll invite Bernie, Max, the FIA and Michelin back to bend him over a barrel and screw him and every F1 fan in the United States from behind again.

While Michelin deserves a major portion of the blame, I don't think they deserve all of it. When Kimi's flat spotted tire vibrated his right front carbon fiber suspension to splinters a few weeks ago a red flag should have gone up to make safety modifications to the one tire rule. That crash almost took out another car and, if the timing of the failure hadn't been so lucky, might have injured or killed KR and God knows whom else.

The FIA had no problem changing the dual qualifying system mid-season when it became cumbersome, so why were they unflinchingly rigid with a genuine safety issue that has been exhibiting itself in various ways since the season began?

Just like the Champ Car/IRL split you have an arrogant wealthy group of administrator/owners in F1 who put their politics and egos ahead of everyone and either don't care or have no idea how much damage they are doing to the sport in the process. If the top priority had been to put on a safe fair race for all participants, I suspect that would have happened.

If, in the genuine pursuit of a safe and fair race, they'd have cancelled the event for safety reasons, I believe the response would have been one of frustrated understanding. The self-serving breath holding we saw exhibited by the FIA and Michelin only evokes astonishment & anger.

It’s hard to imagine that F1 fans will spend big money again to attend an event that has so completely disregarded them. It's even harder to imagine that Tony George won't cut off the FIA after being so utterly dissed.

Unless the FIA has George over a contractual barrel I doubt they will return to Indianapolis next year. The fact that both Speedway and FIA officials left the track well before the supposed "race" was over suggests there will be a new crop of well paid lawyers settling the legal arguments over Indy's last F1 race for many years.

Adios Indy.

[dalyduo]

Huge LOL! Spot on Doug!!

Originally Posted by cdh

another one........

[macdod]

Predictions.

Next year there will be one tire manufacturer in F1.

Indy will be on next year's calendar.

Tony George willl make alot of money at next year's Indy race given Bernie's "discounted" santioning fee, in spite of the record low attendance at the event.

Team's will alll sue Michelin due to lost sponsor revenue and related lawsuits. No money will ever change hands.

Max Mosley will try to penalize teams (by taking points away in next three races) for Indy fiasco. Drivers will not be penalized.

Michael Schmacher will win the World Championship

Rubens will ask for a release from Ferarri at the end of this year.

[Charlie25]

Brilliant cdh!



http://www.champcar.ws/News/Article.asp?ID=9177

Another reason why Champ Car rocks.


Although most fans probably won't be able to take another week off of work, it's a very nice gesture by Champ Car and maybe it will create some new CART fans and repair a little bit of the damage done to open wheel racing. I wish I could go, Cleveland's only 3 hours or so away, and attending a Champ Car race would be a nice way to spend my birthday. Still, a week SCUBA diving in Belize is an okay alternative...

[gmg321]

The simulcast at the race gave us no warning. When the cars pitted I figured they were changing tires and would start from pit lane. When they garaged the cars I was stunned. I was pulling for a Minardi/Jordan podium. I can't imagine how the fans who flew in from around the world must be feeling. So I'm out a few hundred dollars. It stings but no big deal. But the people that flew in from Europe, South America, Japan, and Australia? Not good. I spoke to a guy from England at the airport in Cincinnati who said he would have left earlier but what was he going to do, sit at the airport and wait for his flight? Torture.

[sydude]

Forest Bond's article in the latest RaceFax:
-----------------------


Michelin Teams Convicted, Trial to Follow

As fully expected, the recriminations over the debacle which was the 2005
United States Grand Prix began in earnest the day after the event. And as
equally expected, they will simply drag out this sordid affair, keeping it
in the eye of the general public for far longer than necessary, and in the
end, resolve nothing. What seem most certain in all this is that those most
responsible will have to answer to no one.

Proving the point, on Monday (June 20th), the FIA issued a press release on
the events at Indianapolis, and a second press bulletin to announce that all
seven of the Michelin teams have been summoned to a hearing of the FIA World
Motor Sport Council, to be held in Paris next Wednesday, June 29, 2005.

While the announced hearing will amount to a trial, FIA president Max Mosley
has already delivered the guilty verdict, via the earlier press release. To
wit: "...by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped
the Bridgestone runners, (the Michelin teams) have damaged themselves and
the sport." That was an oblique reference to Article 151(c) of the
International Sporting Code, specifically cited earlier by FIA race director
Charlie Whiting. The article prohibits any, "act prejudicial to the
interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally."

What is prejudicial to the sport is to convict the teams before trial,
particularly when what they are being charged with is doing precisely what
Mosley admonished them three weeks earlier was their grave responsibility.
In a letter to the teams following Kimi Raikkonen's tire failure at the
Nurburgring, he wrote, "It should not be forgotten that a mechanical failure
at high speed may involve a degree of risk to the spectating public. If you
are in any doubt about your car, you should always call it in. If you are
still in doubt after checking the car in the pits, you should retire it from
the race."

If there is a spinal column left among the Michelin Seven, they will finally
confront Mosley over this issue, informing him that, having already been
convicted, their presence is obviously not required in Paris. More pressing
matters, such as doing the Indy laundry, take precedence. Just send us the
bill, and we'll see you in the appeals court.

Michelin can probably expect to be next into the dock. While the FIA
bulletin of today conveniently neglected to incorporate Mosley's June 1
letter to the teams, it did include one of the same date to Michelin, in
which he admonished them to produce tires which are, "reliable under all
circumstances, including prolonged periods under the safety car, off-road
excursions, abuse on curbs, contact with other cars and contact with debris
on the track."

The fact that such tires have never existed will probably not trouble the
World Council, which Mosley will probably get to focus on the reply from
Michelin's director of competition, Pierre Dupasquier. In the final
sentence, Dupasquier probably sealed his company's fate when he wrote that,
"The Michelin Group is committed to serving our partners and the sport of
Formula 1 to the highest level and only with products that meet stringent
and satisfactory levels of safety." It is a contention the concussed Ralf
Schumacher might well choose to argue, and which Mosley no doubt will.

What we suspect is really at work here is a Mosley plan to first convict the
teams, and in so doing, get them to indict Michelin. He can then target the
tire company, evict them from Formula 1, and thus achieve one of his new
goals (now that it will benefit Ferrari), a single tire supplier.

While it violated no statutes, much of the blame for the first six-car Grand
Prix in modern history nevertheless falls on Michelin. On Saturday morning,
prior to the 9 am first practice, Michelin acknowledged a safety issue with
its tires, but said that, after careful examination of the remains, it had
not been able to find a reason for the Friday tire failures.

The problem was serious enough for the company to be flying in replacement,
Barcelona-spec tires, and to recommend setup changes, including increased
tire pressures. Yet there is nothing to indicate how the company was able
to conclude that either the changes or replacement tires would be able to
alleviate a cause it had been unable to identify.

Prior to the end of the second Saturday session, Michelin was saying that,
if they were not allowed to use the replacement tires in the race, they
would withdraw their tires, reflecting a far greater level of concern over
the safety of the original tires than they'd admitted just a couple of hours
earlier. What Michelin said to Renault's Flavio Briatore is unknown, but in
reaction, he announced that, if the replacement tires were not allowed, his
team would not race.

Despite what was obviously a major concern over the safety of the tires,
Dupasquier did not formally notify Whiting that the tires used on Friday and
Saturday were not safe to race until late Saturday night, and Whiting took
no evident notice of Michelin's statements to the teams and the press.

Ultimately, it seems Michelin delayed facing the severity and implications
of its problems until enough time had elapsed to take everything to critical
mass. One is left to wonder if they assumed that, at the 11th hour, the FIA
would cave in to one of the many proposals then coming in from all sides,
including the demand to use the alternative tires, creating a hastily
erected chicane, or running a non-championship race, each of which would
have violated one rule, or several. If so, it was a grievous
miscalculation. Whiting, no doubt on instruction from Mosley, held fast to
the rules.

All that said, once the word 'safety' had been uttered on Friday, however
quietly, responsibility shifted to the FIA. Whiting is, after all, also the
FIA's F1 safety delegate, the man responsible not only for the races, but
for such matters as approving the safety of all cars entered in the
championship and of the courses on which they race.

At any mention of safety, and particularly so with respect to tires --
particularly in light of Mosley's letter of June 1 to Dupasquier and his
opposite number at Bridgestone -- all manner of alarms should have sounded
in Whiting's head. He should have acted. Instead, he did nothing.

While all this was transpiring, Mosley remained in England. We know,
however, that he was in telephone contact with some team owners, and if you
know Whiting, you know he consulted his boss throughout the affair.

It is, then, with the presumed agreement of Mosley that Whiting told
Michelin and its teams that no alternative tires could be used, that no
chicane would be erected, and that the teams' only option was to run slowly
enough in Turn 13 to remain safe. Quite how Michelin was to determine what
speed would be safe, particularly with the cars by then impounded in parc
fermÈ, was left to the imagination.

What followed was hours of high-stakes Texas hold-'em, with a succession of
proposals, threats and counter-threats, and no small amount of bluffing. In
the end, the FIA went 'all in,' and found out at the end of the formation
lap that it was no bluff at all. And so Formula 1 became a bad joke played
on the paying customers, the Speedway and the sport itself by a host of
people who put pride first, and the customer last.

Pride, of course, is what goes before a fall, and Formula 1 is in the
process of taking the plunge. This will drag out for weeks now, before the
World Council, thereafter in another FIA appellate court, and most of all,
in the general press, which otherwise would have gone on to other, more
newsworthy pursuits. And what makes all this so tragic is that it did not
need to happen.

As Southern journalists who cover NASCAR were quick to point out to their
international brethren in the Indy press room, this would never have been
allowed to reach crisis stage in Bubbaville. Bill France would have banged
heads, issued an edict, and the race would have been held with a full field,
and God help him who objects.

The point is well taken. What the sport needed desperately was strong,
decisive leadership, something Mosley claims he provides. What it got was a
vacuum, and the sound of Mosley sucking air in London could be heard clearly
in Indianapolis. As Mosley obstinately hid behind the rule book a continent
away, and Ecclestone stood on the grid and, for the first time in history,
lost a staring match with the team owners, the sport slid noisily over the
edge, descending from show business into burlesque.

What Mosley could have, and should have done was to fly in to Indy on the
private jet the FIA bought from Ecclestone and bring a much needed bit of
reality to bear on the participants.

Formula 1 is, whether one likes it or not, show business first, and sport
rather coincidentally. And the prime imperative of show business is that,
come hell, high water or the second coming of Christ, the show goes on.

Damn the rules, damn the Concorde, damn everything else, but the show must
go on, for the 130,000 or so in the stands, for the 90 million or so
watching around the planet, for the sponsors and for the very survival of
the sport.

Because a real Grand Prix was impossible, Mosley should have told the teams
that there was no way that the show would not go on, and that a race as much
as possible like the one originally planned and advertised would be held.

The details? Parc fermÈ no longer applies. Cars will be released to the
teams immediately, and an extended warm-up will be held on Sunday morning,
to determine setups and tire life. The grid order from qualifying stands.
The one-set tire rule is history, as is the limitation on sets available.
Run whatever tires are best suited to the track, and change them as you
must, without penalty. Race as hard as a concern for safety allows, if
safety remains a concern. Anyone who doesn't like it, or who fails to run as
hard as they can in the race, can see me in my office on Monday. Bring
Vaseline; you'll need it.

And then, Mosley should have suppressed his considerable ego, gone before
the assembled media, and for once, been totally honest and forthcoming about
the situation. The circumstances were regrettable, but could not be changed
sufficiently to allow a normal Grand Prix. While rare, such things happen
under the pressure of competition. But out of concern for the sport's fans,
the show would go on. And then apologize. It is our conviction that not a
word of criticism would have been heard thereafter.

Instead, Mosley fiddled, and Formula 1 began to burn.

Clearly, the sport cannot stand much more of what passes for leadership
under Mosley. Rather than being concerned about what is best for the sport,
Mosley is occupied only with retaining his job, and its power. And almost
without exception, he is getting it wrong, his proposed redefinition of
Formula 1 in 2008 being but the latest example.

That Mosley is taking the sport down is a view held by every manufacturer
and team in F1, save Ferrari, which has seen the end of its domination at
hand, and believes it can return to prominence in the dumbed-down version of
F1 which they and Mosley are crafting for the post-Concorde period.

Despite their conviction about Mosley, however, the manufacturers are
clearly content to avoid confrontation with him, choosing instead to keep
handing him rope with which to hang himself by the end of 2007.

Not exclusively as a result of the tragic United States Grand Prix, it is
now clear that, while the sport will survive until 2008, it will do so in
progressively diminished form, and that come 2008, we will see Mosley's
tarted up GP2 masquerading as Formula 1 and run by the FIA, dependent on
Ferrari for credibility as it contests with a manufacturer-run series for
fans and viewers.

In that, there is the perfect mirror reflection of the split in American
open-wheel racing, and we all know where that leads. As Lincoln said so
many decades ago, a house divided cannot stand.

As we said about the Indianapolis 500 not long after The Split, just because
something has existed for a hundred years does not guarantee that it will
survive 12 months on, or that if it survives, that it will be continue to be
significant. History is littered with the ashes of things far more
substantial and impressive than Formula 1. Notable examples litter the
landscape in Athens and Rome. To think that Formula 1 is immune is nothing
more than delusion.

The solution, then, must be found quickly. To sit back and wait to scoop up
the pieces in 2008 risks having nothing to inherit. If Mosley is re-elected
in October, the sport and its participants and followers will pay an
inordinate price, if not the ultimate price.

The time for handing out rope is past. For the very survival of the sport,
the manufacturers need to place the full weight of their massive public
relations machinery behind a candidate for the FIA presidency who has
demonstrated competence in running a sports- entertainment company. They
then need to bring that machinery to bear on the FIA General Assembly
members, whose votes will determine who will run the FIA from 2006 through
2010. If it is Mosley, consider the further damage he can do over the next
two and a half years.

Contents Copyright 2001-2005, Word of Mouth and Forrest Bond

--

Forrest K. Bond
Publisher
RaceFax DotCom
1107 Gardenia Drive
New Braunfels, TX 78130

830-625-0500

[cdh]

fabulous, so well said..............

.

[sydude]

From an interview with my old favorite, good old Nige the 'Whinger':

----

www.nobok.co.uk

EXCLUSIVE: Mansell on... F1's day of shame

The US Grand Prix descended into farce when 14 of the 20 cars refused to take the start because of concerns about the safety of their tyres.

We asked Nobok legend Nigel Mansell for his thoughts on one of the bleakest days in the history of the sport.

I am shocked, disgusted and very angry with what went on at Indianapolis on Sunday.

Fiasco isn’t the right word. I think it is the most unbelievable own goal in the history of Formula 1.

Someone somewhere has got to be accountable but I feel very strongly that Michelin shouldn’t come out as the villains of all this.

They deserve to be congratulated for holding their hand up and saying ‘Look we’ve got a problem. Someone could get hurt’. It was an incredibly professional and honest thing to do.

I know what I’m talking about here. I lost the 1986 World Championship when one of my tyres exploded going down the straight. Even now I thank the good Lord that I didn’t hit anything. But did I go out and blame the manufacturer? Of course I didn’t.

CHICANE

What should have happened this weekend is that the teams should have closed ranks to ensure that the race went ahead as planned. After all, who in motor racing never had a problem?

It is totally unacceptable that this was not resolved on Saturday night. All it needed was a small chicane just to slow the cars down to about 60mph. Then we could have had a good race and there wouldn’t have been a problem.

As I understand it, the Michelin teams had accepted that, if the chicane was put in place, then they would not have scored points from the race. But at least they would have put on a spectacle for the fans.

The bigger picture is that the show must go on.

For that reason, the FIA should not have allowed this situation to develop. They either govern the sport or they don’t.

Certain manufacturers may have been bickering but someone should have got them all by the throat and said ‘We’re building a chicane. Now let’s go racing’.

FORCE MAJEURE

I’ve driven at Indianapolis and I know those two turns. The loading coming on to that main straight is unreal. There is not another corner in Formula 1like it.

There was a bona fide reason to put that chicane in – driver and spectator safety – and, out of the sport’s 10 teams, it seems only Ferrari did not back the plan.

I have great reservations about Ferrari’s attitude here. I think they made a very serious misjudgement. They’ve ruled F1 for a number of years but no team is bigger than the sport itself.

But even if Ferrari were not happy with it, the governing body could still do what they wanted on safety grounds by using force majeure.
If anyone opposed it then that should have been leaked to the press. Let them take the flak.

RESPONSIBILITY

I have tremendous admiration and sympathy for all the team owners who had to withdraw their cars. They were put in a situation in which they couldn’t win. If they had allowed their cars to race knowing what they did then imagine the lawsuits against them!

They acted very responsibly because in my day, we would have been told ‘Get in the car and drive. If you don’t we’ll find someone else’.
I also felt sorry for the drivers. You could see how frustrated they were but they were not allowed to say anything to anybody.

This will have done irreparable damage to F1’s reputation in America. I’ve lived there, I’ve raced there and I know American fans very well.

It is a monumental disaster. Indianapolis boss Tony George has done a lot for Formula 1 in America and the sport’s bosses have responded by sticking two fingers up at everyone.

Put it this way: if there is a US Grand Prix next year then I don’t think any Americans will go!

LAUGHING STOCK

Of course, this episode has also ruined what was turning out to be a very entertaining season.

But it has done more than that. It has made the sport a laughing stock and shown up F1’s powers-that-be for what they are.

They have a big responsibility to the fans and they ignored it. They were too busy arguing whether doing this or that would favour one team or another and they didn’t see the wood for the trees.

If someone had taken the bull by the horns and said ‘This is what’s going to happen’ then this problem could have been fixed in a heartbeat.
It makes me sick to the bottom of my stomach.

It makes me feel very sad and I would like to take this opportunity, despite having had nothing to do with it, to apologise to the fans worldwide.

[cdh]

Here is a page with an interesting write up on the 1984 USGP held in Dallas. Very interesting to read in light of the Indy mess, very different (better) attitude in F1 at that time. Check out Mansell in the video clip, good story.

.

[gmg321]

Check out "Paul Stoddart comments on the US Grand Prix" on Yahoo UK & Ireland Formula 1 from f1.racing-live.com. Good stuff. Perhaps someone could transfer it directly to Team Juicy as I have never owned a computer and would have no earthly clue how to do the fancy stuff you guys do. Enjoy!

[sydude]

BRUNDLE VS BERNIE

ITV-F1 commentator Martin Brundle's interview with F1 ringmaster Bernie Ecclestone on the grid at Indianapolis made for compelling viewing, as our man tried to get to the bottom of what was going on amid the mounting chaos.

So we thought you'd appreciate it if we published a transcript of the interview here on ITV-F1.com. Over to Martin (look out Jeremy Paxman!)...


Martin: Bernie, there’s nowhere to go now, is there – you’re painted in a corner. What are you going to do? You’re the promoter, we look like we might have just four cars starting this race...

Bernie: Well, it looks like there’s a lot more cars here, uh? I’m not the promoter either, but, no, they’re all here…

Martin: But I’m told that even the Minardis may peel off and come into the pits at the end of the warm-up lap and only four cars will come down the start line. They may all be here at the moment...

Bernie: Well, you know so why are you asking me…

Martin: Well, I want to know if I’m right or not!

Bernie: You wait and see.

Martin: They’ve been told they can’t go flat-out around the track, and if they go slow it’s more dangerous. I mean, you can’t have 14 cars driving effectively a different racetrack.

Bernie: The problem has been caused by the tyres, obviously – Michelin brought the wrong tyres, it’s as simple as that.

Martin: But surely in the interests of Formula 1 you must have been screaming at the lot of them saying, “Sort yourselves out. This is what I’m going to do here, I’m taking charge here.”

Bernie: Yeah, but the difference is you can’t tell people to do something when the tyre company has said you can’t race on those tyres.

Martin: Did we need some more control of the paperwork that’s been flying about and the meetings? Could we not bang some heads together and just get this sorted out last night?

Why are we standing on the grid…you’re asking me what’s going on and I’m asking you what’s going on…

Bernie: I wish I knew. The problem is simple, as I say. There are not the tyres here where the tyre company feels confident that those tyres are OK, especially on that banking.

Martin: The future of F1 in America? The future of Michelin in F1?

Bernie: Not good.

Martin: On both counts?

Bernie: Both counts.

Martin: What will happen this week, will they be slapped in some court?

Bernie: We’ll have to see. It’s early days, we don’t know. I mean, I feel sorry for the public. I feel sorry for the promoter here.

Martin: I feel sorry for my eight million mates sitting at home looking forward to a good grand prix. Go and bang their heads together – but it’s too late now, we’ve run out of time, haven’t we?

Bernie: Well, let’s see what happens now. People shouldn’t give up on Formula 1 because of this one incident. The incident’s not the fault of the teams, to be honest with you.

What Michelin have said is that if they put a chicane in that corner then it would be OK, they could run. And it’s been decided not to put it in so that’s it.

Martin: Yeah, but they didn’t intentionally bring tyres that were not up to it. They’ve just obviously been caught out by something – a bad batch or this new diamond-cut surface. We saw Bridgestone having tyres fail in Barcelona with the safety car situation.

Surely we just have to have a sensible pill and say, OK, this is the situation we find ourselves in – let’s take a sensible solution and go motor racing.

Bernie: Tell me where we can buy the pills…

Martin: We need to talk to Mrs Ecclestone, maybe this needs a woman’s common sense here. Ah, Mrs Ecclestone – this needs a woman’s intuition on this, don’t you think?

Mrs Ecclestone: Nothing to say, nothing to say…

Martin: I think maybe you should have had something to say and given them a jolly good slapping!

[sydude]

Originally Posted by gmg321

Check out "Paul Stoddart comments on the US Grand Prix" on Yahoo UK & Ireland Formula 1 from f1.racing-live.com. Good stuff. Perhaps someone could transfer it directly to Team Juicy as I have never owned a computer and would have no earthly clue how to do the fancy stuff you guys do. Enjoy!

Here ya go:

Paul Stoddart comments on the US Grand Prix
A personal account of US Grand Prix events


[22/06/05 - 13:17]



Paul Stoddart faces the media at Indianapolis
What follows is a press release from the MinardiF1 team giving the views of Paul Stoddart.

"Much has been said about the farce that occurred on Sunday, June 19, in Indianapolis, and I feel that in the interests of transparency, it would be worthwhile for someone who was actually present, and participated in the discussions leading up to the start of the Grand Prix, to provide a truthful account of what took place, both for the 100,000-plus fans who were present, and for the hundreds of millions of people watching on television around the world.

While this is a genuine attempt to provide a factual timeline of the relevant events that took place, should any minor detail or sequence be disputed, it will not, in my opinion, affect in any way this account of events that led up to arguably the most damaging spectacle in the recent history of Formula One.

Background

For those who have not followed the recent political developments in Formula One, it is fair to say that, for over a year now, the majority of teams have felt at odds with the actions of the FIA and its President, Max Mosley, concerning the regulations, and the way in which those regulations have been introduced, or are proposed to be introduced. Not a weekend has gone by where some, or all, of the teams are not discussing or disputing these regulations. This is so much the case that it is common knowledge the manufacturers have proposed their own series commencing January 1, 2008, and this is supported by at least two of the independent teams. The general perception is that, in many instances, these issues have become personal, and it is my opinion that was a serious contributory factor to the failure to find a solution that would have allowed all 20 cars to compete in Sunday’s United States Grand Prix.

The Facts

Friday, June 17
I noticed that Ricardo Zonta’s Toyota had stopped, but in all honesty, did not pay any attention to the reasons why; however, I actually witnessed Ralf Schumacher’s accident, both on the monitors, and more significantly, I could see what took place from my position on the pit wall. This necessitated a red flag, and in the numerous replays on the monitors, it looked very much like the cause of the accident was a punctured rear tyre.

Throughout the afternoon, numerous people in the paddock suggested it was a tyre failure and commented that it was similar to the serious accident which befell Ralf Schumacher during the 2004 US Grand Prix. Later that evening was the first time I was aware of a potential problem with the Michelin tyres at this event. In all honesty, I didn’t pay a great deal of attention, as our team is on Bridgestone tyres.

Saturday, June 18
On arriving at the circuit, the word throughout the paddock was that there was a potential problem with the rear tyres supplied to all Michelin teams for this event, and it became evident as the first and second sessions were run that most of the affected teams were being very conservative with the amount of on-track running they were doing. In addition, Toyota announced that it had substituted Ricardo Zonta for Ralf Schumacher, who would take no further part in the event. Speculation was rife in the paddock that some Michelin teams might not take part in qualifying. Also, during the practice session, I was informed there would be a Team Principals’ meeting with Bernie Ecclestone at 1430 hrs after qualifying, which I incorrectly assumed would centre around the Michelin issue.

Qualifying took place, and indeed, all 20 cars qualified for Sunday’s Grand Prix.

At approximately 1420 hrs, I attended Bernie’s office, and with representatives present from all other teams, including Ferrari, the meeting commenced. Surprisingly, the main topic of conversation was the number of events and calendar for 2006, followed by a suggestion that a meeting be convened at the next Grand Prix to discuss two issues only – firstly, a proposal for a single-tyre supplier in Formula One, and secondly, whether or not it would be desirable to qualify with or without a race fuel load in 2006. Only at the very end of the meeting did the Michelin tyre issue arise, and in fairness, it was not discussed in any great detail. I personally found this strange, but as I have stated, it did not affect Minardi directly, and therefore I had no reason to pursue the matter.

Throughout Saturday evening, there was considerable speculation in the paddock that the tyre issue was much more serious than at first thought, and people were talking about a fresh shipment of tyres being flown overnight from France, and what penalty the Michelin teams would take should those tyres be used. By the time I left the paddock, people were taking bets on Minardi and Jordan scoring points!

Later that evening, I checked with our Sporting Director on what developments had occurred, and was told that the issue was indeed very serious, and the possibility existed that the Michelin teams would not take part in the race.

Sunday, June 19
I arrived at the circuit at 0815 hrs, only to find the paddock was buzzing with stories suggesting the Michelin teams would be unable to take part in the Grand Prix. I was then handed a copy of correspondence between Michelin, the FIA, and the Michelin teams that revealed the true extent of the problem. By now, journalists were asking if Minardi would agree to a variation of the regulations to allow the Michelin teams to compete, and what penalties I felt would be appropriate.

A planned Minardi press briefing took place at 0930 hrs, and as it was ending, I was summoned to an urgent meeting, along with Jordan, with Bernie Ecclestone, the two most senior Michelin representatives present at the circuit, IMS President Tony George, Team Principals, and technical representatives from the Michelin teams. At this meeting, Michelin, to its credit, admitted that the tyres available were unable to complete a race distance around the Indianapolis circuit without a change to the track configuration, so as to reduce the speed coming out of the last turn onto the banking. Much background information was provided as to the enormous efforts that Michelin, with support from its teams, had undertaken in the preceding 48 hours to try and resolve the problem, but it was clear that all those efforts had failed to produce a suitable solution that wouldn’t involve support from the non-Michelin teams, and ultimately, the FIA.

What was requested of the Bridgestone teams was to allow a chicane to be constructed at Turn 13, which would then allow Michelin to advise their teams that, in their opinion, the tyres would be able to complete the race distance. It was made very clear that this was the only viable option available, as previous suggestions from the FIA, such as speed-limiting the Michelin cars through Turn 13, could, and probably would, give rise to a monumental accident. This idea, as well as one concerning the possibility of pit stops every 10 laps, were dismissed, and discussion returned to the only sensible solution – a chicane. During this discussion, a technical representative with specific knowledge of the Indianapolis circuit, together with representatives from IMS, were tasked with preparing the design of a chicane, and Bernie Ecclestone agreed to speak with the one Team Principal not present, Mr Todt, and to inform the FIA President, Max Mosley, who was not present at Indianapolis, of the planned solution to allow the successful running of the US Grand Prix. With only a few hours now remaining to the start of the race, we agreed to reconvene as soon as Bernie had responses from Messrs Todt and Mosley.

At approximately 1055 hrs, Bernie informed us that not only would Mr Todt not agree, stating that it was not a Ferrari problem, but an FIA and a Michelin problem, but also Mr Mosley had stated that if any attempts were made to alter the circuit, he would cancel the Grand Prix forthwith. These words had a familiar tone to me, as they were similar to those I had heard around midnight on the Friday preceding the 2005 Australian Grand Prix, when I was told by all the senior FIA representatives present that the Australian Grand Prix would be cancelled forthwith if I did not withdraw pending legal action between Minardi and the FIA. Once again, Mr Mosley was not present at that Grand Prix! It is fair to say at this point that the vast majority of people present in the room both felt and stated that Mr Mosley had completely overstepped the mark, had no idea whatsoever of the gravity of the situation, and furthermore, cared even less about the US Grand Prix, its organisers, the fans, and indeed, the hundreds of millions of television viewers around the world who were going to be affected by his intransigence.

By this time, the nine teams had discussed running a non- championship race, or a race in which the Michelin teams could not score points, and even a race whereby only the Michelin teams used the new chicane, and indeed, every other possible option that would allow 20 cars to participate and put on a show, thereby not causing the enormous damage to Formula One that all those present knew would otherwise occur.

By now, most present felt the only option was to install the chicane and race, if necessary, without Ferrari, but with 18 cars, in what would undoubtedly be a non-championship race. We discussed with Bernie the effects of the FIA withdrawing its staff, and agreed among ourselves a Race Director, a Safety Car driver, and other essential positions, and all agreed that, under the circumstances, what was of paramount importance was that the race must go ahead. All further agreed that since we would most likely be denied FIA facilities, such as scales and post-race scrutineering, every competitor would instruct his team and drivers to conduct themselves in the spirit of providing an entertaining race for the good of Formula One.

At this point, we called for all 20 drivers, and indeed, all 20 arrived, at which point we informed them of our plan. While I cannot testify that each and every driver agreed with what we were proposing, what I can say with certainty is that no driver disagreed, and indeed, members of the Grand Prix Drivers’ Association discussed overseeing the construction of a suitable chicane. Jean Todt was the only significant team individual not present, and the Ferrari drivers stated this decision was up to Mr Todt.

I feel it is important to stress that, at this stage, and mindful of the total impossibility – call it force majeure if you wish – of 14 cars being able to compete in the race, the nine teams represented agreed they would not take part in the race unless a solution was found in the interests of Formula One as a global sport, as it was clear to all present that the sport, and not the politics, had to prevail if we were to avoid an impending disaster.

After a short break, we reconvened without the drivers. When I arrived in Bernie’s office, Flavio Briatore was on the telephone to Mr Mosley, and it was quite clear from the body language of the others gathered in the room that Mr Mosley was having none of our suggestions. At the conclusion of the telephone call, it was obvious that many of those in the room had lost all faith in Mr Mosley and his ability to perform his function as President of the FIA in respect of Formula One matters.

I’m sure this sentence will be treated with contempt by Mr Mosley, but what must be realised is that there are various reasons that other Team Principals, and the most senior people in Formula One, will not say publicly what they openly feel privately about Mr Mosley, his politics and his governance of the sport. There is a great temptation to go into those reasons in detail, but that is for another day. Suffice to say, those gathered at Indianapolis felt Mr Mosley, and to a lesser degree, the lack of co-operation from Mr Todt, were about to be responsible for the greatest FIAsco in Formula One’s recent history.

Discussions then took place concerning the other telephone calls with Mr Mosley from, among others, Bernie Ecclestone, Ron Dennis and Tony George, and it was clearly revealed to what extent Mr Mosley was prepared to go in order to achieve his aims. To my total disgust, it was stated that Mosley had informed Mr Martin, the FIA’s most senior representative in the USA, that if any kind of non- championship race was run, or any alteration made to the circuit, the US Grand Prix, and indeed, all FIA-regulated motorsport in the US, would be under threat – again, exactly the same tactic that was used in threatening the Australian Grand Prix and Australian motorsport in March of this year.

By now, it was evident Mosley had bullied the US Grand Prix promoter into submission, Bernie Ecclestone was powerless to intervene, and all efforts of the Team Principals, with the exception of Jean Todt, had failed to save the 2005 US Grand Prix.

At this point, the pit lane had opened and a hasty discussion took place concerning whether or not the Michelin teams would go to the grid. A radio had been delivered to me by team personnel at this stage, and I was able to know which cars were going to the grid. It is interesting to note that the Jordan Team Principal was not present at this time, and indeed, it was the Jordans that first proceeded to the grid, followed by the Ferraris. After discussion with Bernie Ecclestone, it was agreed the Michelin teams would go to the grid, but were absolutely prevented from participating in the race because of the tyre situation.

We then proceeded to the grid, at which point I asked Jordan’s Colin Kolles if he intended to stand by the other teams or participate in the race. In no uncertain terms, I was told Jordan would be racing. I was also approached by a Bridgestone representative, who informed me that Bridgestone wished us to race. This left me with one of the most difficult decisions I have had to take during my time in F1, as I did not want to race, but given my current relationship with Mr Mosley, felt certain heavy sanctions would follow if I did not. I made it clear to Bernie Ecclestone, and several Team Principals, that if the Jordans either went off or retired, I would withdraw the Minardi cars from the race.

It is important for people to realise that Minardi, the seven Michelin teams, Bernie Ecclestone, and the promoters did not agree with Mr Mosley’s tactics. For the reasons previously outlined, it may take some considerable time, if ever, for this to be admitted, but there is no question in my mind that the farce that occurred on Sunday, June 19, 2005 at Indianapolis was the responsibility of the FIA President, Max Mosley, and compounded by the lack of support from Jean Todt.

For the avoidance of doubt, in my opinion, Michelin was responsible enough to admit that the problem was of their creation. When one considers that even the replacement, Barcelona-specification tyres that were shipped to IMS, when tested, apparently exhibited the same characteristics as those that originally failed, this clearly is a case of force majeure, as I do not for a moment believe that Michelin intentionally brought tyres to the event that were unsuitable for competition.

Far more importantly, however, Mosley refused to accept any of the solutions offered, and that refusal was, I believe, politically motivated. Therefore, I feel he failed in his duty, and that is why I have called for his resignation.

Much discussion and debate will undoubtedly take place over the coming weeks and months, but I believe this is a truthful and honest account of the facts, and not the fiction, surrounding the responsibility for this FIAsco. People can now make up their own minds!"

Press Release
MinardiF1

[dalyduo]

What a factual indictment of Mosley and Todt's irrational self-absorption. They are the Adolf Hitler/Saddam Hussein of F1, seemingly believing their personal agenda's and power are the only reason for F1 to exist.

More compelling evidence that what happened at Indy should not be counted as a points race and Mosely should be strapped into a high powered ejection seat and launched into his next career as a bit of side show entertainment before grid formation at the French Grand Prix.

[sydude]

I wouldn't take Stoddard's account as Gospel. He's as self-serving as Mosley. But still, it's a very interesting account, and the most compelling bit of data there is his statement that he knew as fact that Mosley was personally responsible for the Chicane call, which Mosley claimed otherwise. If Mosley is right, then Stoddard will be open to (and will most likely be hit with) a Libel suit and then of course further FIA sanctions, but if Stoddard is right then this info is absolutely damning to Mosley.

[dalyduo]

What could Stoddard possibly gain by opening himself to a libel suit and FIA sanctions? My money's on his account being closer to the truth than anything Mosely is going to say.

Originally Posted by sydude

I wouldn't take Stoddard's account as Gospel. He's as self-serving as Mosley. But still, it's a very interesting account, and the most compelling bit of data there is his statement that he knew as fact that Mosley was personally responsible for the Chicane call, which Mosley claimed otherwise. If Mosley is right, then Stoddard will be open to (and will most likely be hit with) a Libel suit and then of course further FIA sanctions, but if Stoddard is right then this info is absolutely damning to Mosley.

[gmg321]

Sy,
Thanks for the transfer.
Greatly appreciated.

[kwlorentzen]

Originally Posted by sydude

BRUNDLE VS BERNIE

Martin: We need to talk to Mrs Ecclestone, maybe this needs a woman’s common sense here. Ah, Mrs Ecclestone – this needs a woman’s intuition on this, don’t you think?

Mrs Ecclestone: Nothing to say, nothing to say…

Martin: I think maybe you should have had something to say and given them a jolly good slapping!

Seems like she was smart enough to stay out of the fire.

[kwlorentzen]

Where’s the leadersip? After reading the Brundle VS. Bernie interview and Paul Stoddarts account of the events leading up to the “race?,” the whole fiasco looks somewhat similar to what happens when a few spoiled little brats can’t play nicely with others, I.E. mainly Mosely, Ecclestone (who should be present at all of the races), Todt, and Martin. The whole situation could have been resolved several times over before it was too late. I’m sure all of these boys were FULLY aware of the situation and could have made a few compromises in order to allow the show to go on. Instead it was like watching the anatomy of a crash: Little mistakes are left unchecked, allowed to turn into big mistakes, and then it happens. It was totally preventable and no one had the cojones to make the call.

I’m even more angered after watching a special on CBS and seeing all the fans that flocked to the event in its first four years. Bad form! And this is supposed to be the premier league in the world? As far as responsibility goes, I think not! F1 should take lessons from Richard Petty: If it wasn’t for the fans, they wouldn’t be racing at all.

[gmg321]

What a move by Michelin to announce the ticket refund the day before the meeting.