How do you steer?

[MJAmok]

Sounds like a stupid question, right? But, over the last few days, I've learned that there are two schools of thought (at least).

One set of drivers, including me, pull down on the steering wheel into a turn. So, for a right hand turn, they mainly use their right hand. I learned this from Kevin Adams, and am convinced (at least for now) that it gives me greater feel and control.

The other school of thought, among whose advocates are Martin Birkmann, suggests pushing up the wheel from the opposite side of the turn. So, the left hand is used more for right hand turns.

Interesting? What do you do? Why? Do you think it really matters??

[jlowe]

Great. Even as a driver who, on more than one occasion, has been accused of "thinking too much," I never thought about how I steer.

Now I have one more thing to think about.

Thanks.

[rgreist]

I use telekenesis.

[Yarab]

I think you have to much time on your "hands"

[jcraige]

This is interesting as I am making a conscious effort this year to try to use my left hand more when turning. I believe I am only using my right hand to steer which I have chalked up to either it being my dominant hand or the hand that gives me the most "torque" for the majority of the turns as we go clockwise around the track.

This strategy leaves blisters on the right hand at Lime Rock and makes it difficult to efficiently execute shifts while applying pressure on the wheel as I need to move my right hand to the shifter I noticed it last year in the Downhil at LRP when taking it in 4th and then shifting to 5th just past the apex. I do not have the control with my left hand that I do with my right. I am thinking if I could train myself to us my left hand for input on all the corners I would be less twitchy when my right hand is off the wheel and more precise generally.

(Why do I have a feeling I am leaving myself open to advice on how to use my hands during recreational activities not involving racing???)

[badgersid]

JIM whoever accused you of thinking wiil get a stern lecture from me.i am sticking up for you and will argue that point with anyone.

I am here for you


JIM C what you do with your hand's out of view from the public concern's us not

[jcraige]

Originally Posted by badgersid

JIM C what you do with your hand's out of view from the public concern's us not

Who's with me for higher sides on the new car???

Anyone?

Anyone?

[Kasey]

I'm still too challenged by when and where to have given any thought as to how.

[Kasey]

Originally Posted by badgersid

JIM C what you do with your hand's out of view from the public concern's us not

....Nevermind

[OLDMAN]

Michael S. (Formula 1) says you use the opposite hand. Left hand to turn right and RHTTL. Naturally, I do it the other way.

OLDMAN

[WatertownNewbie]

Earlier today I was at a lapping day at LRP, so I'm sitting here trying to remember how I was steering. My best recollection is that I used the same hand to start the turn of the wheel, but the opposite hand to sustain the pressure. That is, for a right hand turn (many at LRP), I pulled down when I wanted to start the turn, and then I maintained the amount of wheel turn with the left hand.

One way to look at it is that the opposite hand is moving in the same direction as you want the car to move. (Michael, just trying to give you more stuff to think about.)

[Gerardo]

I use both hands equally when I steer. If you can get the job done, the fans have no idea which hands are working harder, so.........

But if you'd like to make things easier, why not evenly distribute your muscle effort between both your hands? Might offer more precise control.

Jim, keep this toward the bottom of your list of things to worry about.

Michael, has your thumb made you think about this in more detail?

[MJAmok]

Originally Posted by Gerardo

Michael, has your thumb made you think about this in more detail?

I always knew I favored the inside hand, but would have thought I used them 60/40 or 70/30. Lately, I've definitely given it more thought! I think it is more like 80/20.

Of course, it all depends on the corner too. The more aggressive the turn, the more work my inside hand does.

[DALhsm]

I also (believe that I) use both hands evenly.
Sometimes maybe against each other. heh
Although I would assume that my left hand is stronger, because I have watched my videos a few times (ok maybe alot) and have seen my right hand off the wheel through alot of corners. I've been told to keep both hands on the wheel as much as possible just releasing long enough to shift. But sometimes I get my hand ready so that I can precisely time my shift, and not have to wait for my hand to get there. And prevent the sudden loss of "the other steering companion".

If you've ever raced one simulators that don't have any resistance to steering, you know that it is very easy to steer further than you wanted. So I learned to steer my hands against each other, don't know exactly why, but I wouldn't overcorrect as much as before.

Okay, so maybe I've had a little too much time on my hands. I need to get back in a car again, keep me from thinking so much.

Hey I can't find a "smily" to show me loosing my marbles/going crazy/showing up at the funny farm..hmmmm

[jcraige]

Originally Posted by Gerardo

Jim, keep this toward the bottom of your list of things to worry about.

Yes indeed. Based on my racing results at VIR, I still need to work on the concept that two cars can not occupy the same space at the same time. Also remembering that cars can't fly has to rank right up there!

[LimeRockRacer]

Which hand do you guys shift with?

[jcraige]

I use my left foot. I stopped that whole clutch thing long ago.

[kwlorentzen]

I heard somewhere that the inside hand shoult be the dominant one and the outside hand should just be there for extra support, thought that may have been for stock cars. Personally, I would guess I'm probably somewhere around 65% 35% inside to outside.

Personal commentary on simulators: They aren't a true simulator unless the steering has feedback, you can feel simulated G's, and the steering doesn't have a delay :P.

[Zach Ply]

I am going to have to check this out next time I am on the track.

[MaxxUK]

Hope you guys don't mind a Brit chipping in here but I have some input on this.

I am a driver coach and race instructor in the UK and one thing I teach is to "educate" both hands. What I mean is to have (ideally) the same level of feel, strength, speed and subtlety in both hands.

I like to give students lots of things to do away from the track and outside a coaching session and one of these is to consciously use different hands alternately to steer day to day. You can keep both hands on the wheel but only use one hand to guide and push/pull the wheel.

This hopefully gives the driver the ability to be less reliant on one hand and share the load more equally. That being the case I feel they will tend to grip the wheel less (with the usual dominant hand) and therefore have a little bit more feel to gauge front-end grip levels.

Some of the guys I have worked with are also endurance racers and regulars in 24hr races and they have reported definite improvements with fatigue levels.

Malcolm

[dalyduo]

Sounds like a smart exercise Malcolm. We appreciate your fresh and experienced point of view so don't hold back!

With this group... If someone doesn't understand or agree with what you are saying... They'll let you know.

Welcome aboard

[MaxxUK]

Patrick,

Many thanks for the welcome and I look forward to contributing to some of the discussions here, I'm already finding it fascinating reading

Malcolm

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by MaxxUK

Patrick,
Many thanks for the welcome and I look forward to contributing to some of the discussions here, I'm already finding it fascinating reading
Malcolm

Malcolm,
Just wanted to add my welcome as well. I think you'll get roped into this band of MerryMen and Women -- the passion is just infectious. And amiably intense.
I look forward to more of your unique and knowledgeable insights, especially with regard to technique. Would also love to hear what you would add to our "Team Juicy 100 Automotive Things to Do Before You Die" thread. (or die doing???)

Glad to have you on board!

[John Greist]

Back to the question.

It varies with the situation. Downhill at Road Atlanta, ourside left hand pretty much alone as the upshift to 5th occurs at or just after the apex. Similar one handing in right turn 7 at Road America as one shifts from 3rd to 4th between turn-in and apex. Left turn 6 at Road America is pretty much pulling down with L hand as right on shift lever for upshift to 3rd about track-out.

So for me, shifting determines which hand gets predominent use without any thought about it. As Revere often reminds me, "Dad, just drive the car."

[Big Sexy]

Over the years I have come to believe steering technique is about as important as tying your racing shoes. There are probably two or three ways to do both, many people have rational for why one way is better than the other, and at the end of the day niether matters.

[John Greist]

Perhaps the final right answer is - with your hands!

[sydude]

Spencer, have you ever been so bored during an endurance/24hr race that you tried to do an entire lap just driving with your knees? I've thought about doing laps with no hands (on the wheel - shifting is allowed), but I bet you've actually done it.

[dalyduo]

I've also heard the observation that some guys drive with their dicks.

However, the logistics of overcoming Nomex underwear, a zipped up drivers suit and the anti-submarine belt usually requires a level of dexterity and blood flow that is only achieved in the moments right before a big crash... Go figure.

[John Greist]

Originally Posted by sydude

Spencer, have you ever been so bored during an endurance/24hr race that you tried to do an entire lap just driving with your knees? I've thought about doing laps with no hands (on the wheel - shifting is allowed), but I bet you've actually done it.

As a bored young man driving to college, I once made 100 miles on the Pennsylvania Turnpike driving with my knees - except at toll booths where I decided it was best to drive properly, forgetting that tool booth collecters had undoubtedly "seen it all."

[cdh]

Originally Posted by John Greist

As a bored young man driving to college, I once made 100 miles on the Pennsylvania Turnpike driving with my knees - except at toll booths where I decided it was best to drive properly, forgetting that tool booth collecters had undoubtedly "seen it all."

I think Hurley Haywood has that one beat John......from Mark Patterson's latest posting on the MSR website about his trip to Le Mans last week.

"Three time Le Mans winner, Hurley Haywood, told me today that when he ran this 3+ mile straight at 240 mph without the chicanes, he would lock the steering wheel with his knees to free up his hands and stretch, breath deeply and relax before the next tense turns arrived".

The full report is worth a read, as are all of Mark's musings. What a world he lives in, sounds like we might see him behind the wheel at Le Mans next year?

[John Greist]

Originally Posted by cdh

I think Hurley Haywood has that one beat John......from Mark Patterson's latest posting on the MSR website about his trip to Le Mans last week.

"Three time Le Mans winner, Hurley Haywood, told me today that when he ran this 3+ mile straight at 240 mph without the chicanes, he would lock the steering wheel with his knees to free up his hands and stretch, breath deeply and relax before the next tense turns arrived".

I don't know Doug...100 miles around corners vs. 3+ miles on a straight? My '51 Chevy really hauled the mail...up to 93 mph top speed. We all know going fast on a straight is easy...saw 161 last Sept in our '91 M5, and wasn't done - slowed because of an oncoming car, still an unusual occurrence in Montana.

[cdh]

Originally Posted by John Greist

...saw 161 last Sept in our '91 M5, and wasn't done - slowed because of an oncoming car, still an unusual occurrence in Montana.

with your knees I trust very cool in any case.

Sorry Doc but I must to Hurley, 240 MPH puts it in a different world, and the Mulsanne isn't completely straight for that matter

[Slowhands]

Sorry, Doug, I might have to side with the Doctor here. At 240 you are developing some serious gyroscopic inertia at the wheels, which would tend to keep them straight. The faster you go, the easier the knee-steer should be. So I would say Dr G at 90 on curving roads is working harder than Hurley whats-his-name. Right? Right??

(Hey Rosso, back me up on this one, dude.)

[Rosso]

Originally Posted by Slowhands

(Hey Rosso, back me up on this one, dude.)

HA! You're on your own on this one!

[WatertownNewbie]

Originally Posted by Slowhands

At 240 you are developing some serious gyroscopic inertia at the wheels, which would tend to keep them straight.

Harsha, are you suggesting that when you hit a bump at 240 and go airborne, you can avoid those nasty trees by using the gyroscopic tires and giving them a turn left or right?!?!?!

[cdh]

Originally Posted by Slowhands

Sorry, Doug, I might have to side with the Doctor here. At 240 you are developing some serious gyroscopic inertia at the wheels, which would tend to keep them straight. The faster you go, the easier the knee-steer should be. So I would say Dr G at 90 on curving roads is working harder than Hurley whats-his-name. Right? Right??

(Hey Rosso, back me up on this one, dude.)

This

driver might disagree

__________________________ ________

Originally Posted by Rosso

HA! You're on your own on this one!

[Slowhands]

Jeeezzz, Doug, everyone knows that knee-steering requires that you keep the car on the ground!

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by WatertownNewbie

Harsha, are you suggesting that when you hit a bump at 240 and go airborne, you can avoid those nasty trees by using the gyroscopic tires and giving them a turn left or right?!?!?!

I think you also have to lean over. And don't forget, look in the direction you want to go. In this case, low eyes might be appropriate. And visualizing a big soft feather bed.