Barn Find

[chsutherland]

Wish I had found it
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/27/au...=1&oref=slogin

[Rosso]

Originally Posted by chsutherland

Wish I had found it
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/27/au...=1&oref=slogin

Thank God! Like the Cobras, you'd be offering to sell it to us and we'd once again be cursing our lack of unlimited discretionary funds.

[chsutherland]

Speaking of Cobras I still have those, RM auction flew out yesterday to look at mine and they managed to find a 427 Cobra in pieces in Independence Mo. Again be thankful I didn't find it. CSX2573 and the two digit GT350 SMF5S090 are very nice cars

[dalyduo]

In 1976 I was in the first graduating class from the then brand new State University of New York at Purchase campus and John W. Straus was our vice-principal. If you look past the Bugatti and the car next to it you can see the nose and top of a pea green E-type coupe. John parked that car next to the administration building every day he was there for the four years I was there. I'd frequently walk by and peer at it as it was a beautiful car that clearly received the least attention of any car on campus. The finish was so oxidized that it looked like moss had grown over it. I suppose he had someone hose it down once in a while but the car just begged for a once over with rubbing compound and some good wax. I thought of asking if he wanted to sell it, figuring I could get a great price considering its condition but even discounted it was well beyond my budget back then so I never talked to him about the car.

The kicker is about 7 years ago my wife Vicki's extended family had a gathering in New York and in walked John Straus whom I hadn't seen in 25 years. I knew Vicki had a distant family connection to Isador Straus but never knew it was John. I introduced myself and reminded him of the Jaguar and he said, "Oh yes, I've still got it... haven't driven it in a while... probably needs a new battery... Then he paused and said, "I've got a few other interesting old family cars that also need some attention, an old Bugatti that people tell me is probably worth a lot of money, but I don't know... They tell me I should have them restored... So maybe I will."

But I knew from the way he said it and the way he neglected the Jaguar that he was never going to do anything with those cars. I don't think he thought of them as mechanical marvels to be preserved and enjoyed as much as convenient transportation devices that at a certain point stopped running and then became family heirlooms like an antique dresser or a Steinway piano. In one sense he got to be right. Glad the Bugatti will move on to someone who will properly restore it and share it with others.

[LimeRockRacer]

What a great story...

[Slowhands]

That's the coolest thing about cars like these-- the personal stories behind them. Really geat story, Pat. Must bring back all kinds of thoughts and memories seeing the very same Jag in the photo that you lusted after as a student. Too cool...

[rslonaker]

Talk about six degree's of separation...

[cdh]

wow.....there are still hidden treasures out there - amazing link DD

Big Dick, an example of your fav Ferrari will also be at the Greenwich Concours this weekend, a 1963 250 GT Lusso - BUT this one was owned by Steve McQueen, shall I bid for you?



The price is estimated in the 800 - 1.2 range but even Christies is not sure what the McQueen provenance might add to that number. He special ordered the brown paint - looks better in RED

[dlippert]

Sure, go ahead and bid. Use your credit card and we'll figure something out later. :-)

[macdod]

Great story Pat. And what a beautiful car. I saw the Raplh Lauren cars at the Boston Museum a couple of years ago and couldn't believe how absolutely beautiful they were. They had the lines of a racing yacht and the curves of a women.

Extraordinary.

[chsutherland]

It is rumored that Sergio Scaglietti, who was one of Ferrari's coach builders(250TR) never used any measuring instruments. So each body was unique and quite gorgeous.

[dalyduo]

It actually brings back feelings of frustration and anger that someone with such great means and wonderful cars could neglect them so badly.

Think about it. He drove the Bugatti until 1962 and then parked it and watched it slowly rot for 45 years. The Jaguar spent its life on the road and in the barn on that same unending path of neglect. He had the means to maintain them in showroom condition if he'd chosen to but couldn't even bring himself to wash them.

Of course they were his cars and he had the right to do anything he wanted with them but having the means and choosing not to maintain them disrespects both the art of the cars and the people who built them.

For those who love great cars it is the automotive equivalent of child abuse.

OK... I'm over the top on this one but back in my college days I'd have killed for an E-type and eaten spam every day to afford to maintain it. So to have the means and choose not to even minimally care for such great cars was and still is hard to fathom.

Originally Posted by Slowhands

That's the coolest thing about cars like these-- the personal stories behind them. Really geat story, Pat. Must bring back all kinds of thoughts and memories seeing the very same Jag in the photo that you lusted after as a student. Too cool...

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by dalyduo

He had the means to maintain them in showroom condition if he'd chosen to but couldn't even bring himself to wash them.
Of course they were his cars and he had the right to do anything he wanted with them but having the means and choosing not to maintain them disrespects both the art of the cars and the people who built them.

For those who love great cars it is the automotive equivalent of child abuse.

I'm right with you, DD. Exactly how I felt watching the abuse of modern classics by the Philistines who put out that direct-to-video piece of schlock called Red Line...

[cdh]

Like hanging Cleworth paintings in the sun to fade.....yes, these are paintings.
(Harold Cleworth - American automotive artist)

[Slowhands]

Wow. That SL is just incredible. You can tell he loves the car-- it's rendered with unbelievable delicacy...whereas the leaves in the foreground look like they're painted...

[dalyduo]

Christies estimated the Bugatti would go for between $300,000 & $400,000. The auction came down to a phone bidder and an in house bidder who battled each other well past the estimates with the phone bidder finally winning the Bugatti for (after buyers premium) $852,500...

Woof... And that's before restoration.

[chsutherland]

Christies always estimates low, however they know what it will go for. 800K is about right for that car. very rare very desirable
craig

[Jim Pace]

Pat,
My father-in-law, Eduardo Dibos, purchased a 250SWB new in 1961. Drove & raced chassis #3175GT around South America and in the 1964 Daytona Endurance race finishing 13th. After he passed away the car sat for years and was later sold as a "basket case" to Italy and resold once later. Still resides in Italy.

I have a few pics of the car. One is just prior to loading onto an airliner in Lima Peru on the way to Daytona in 1964. I was given the picture by the chief mechanic. A second photo is taking the greenflag at Daytona w/ Dibos behind the wheel. This from J.J. O'Malley's book on Daytona. The third is of the current owner at a Ferrari meet. (All too large for downloading w/o a little help).

Originally silver, Dibos painted it red for Daytona because "a Ferrari should be red!". Repainted yellow because the current owner had enough red ones.

Great stories from my mother-in-law about traveling in the 250. She hated it! Too fast, too hot, and too loud! But Sr. Dibos loved it!

How cool to talk with one's mother-in-law about road tripping across South America in a 250 SWB???

JP

[chsutherland]

God bless TJR and those who reside in it. Two very cool car stories. The 250GT SWB is my #1 on the list. Jim was is a steel body or aluminum? Either way what fun that trip must have been. What does too hot, too fast, too loud mean?
craig

[Rosso]

Originally Posted by chsutherland

What does too hot, too fast, too loud mean?
craig

It means your Mother-In-Law is in the car!

[Jim Pace]

Craig,
Steel bodied and "used for GTO studies" in how the Ferrari archieves lists it. The story from the crew chief was a previous car was ordered late 1950's and the ship sank on the way over. One fine car to the bottom! At a time when Enzo Ferrari had to grant you one of his cars they were very rare. Dibos called Enzo and said he needed another car for racing! Enzo pulled a test mule out of the GTO development program, cleaned it up and sent to Dibos with a nice note in January of 1961.
BTW Barchetta list the car as yellow but the guys that saw it come off the boat in '61 told me it was silver. The current owner was not particually impressed when I passed along that info...

His wife thought the car was too fast because he drove it that way every where. In South America in the '60's one drove as fast on the highway as one wanted. She recalls trips along the beach highway near 300 kph.
Too hot because as beautiful as the car is I imagine it is no place for a lady (and mother of 10) near the equador.
Too loud because what motorhead could resist hearing a v12 scream at every opportunity.
Needless to say this is my most highly desired car, #3175GT. Just knowing the story and the players is very cool.
JP

[Slowhands]

What a beautiful, elegant machine, JP! If only Enzo would build a few simple, honest sports cars like that these days...but maybe it's no longer possible with all the safety regs. Oh well, beautiful pictures will have to do.

[chsutherland]

Ferrari was known for racing on a budget, which meant that sometimes he would switch motors and chassis to fit FIA homologation requirements. Your SWB being used for GTO studies makes the car very unique and in my mind more appealing. As far as it being silver and the current owner having a problem, good for you for bringing it up. To quote Ferris Bueller's Day off " A man with standards so far out of whack, doesn't deserve such a fine automobile". Who cares what color it is. Primer grey would be ok with me. Interesting side note, Ferrari had Moss drive and aluminum SWB at LeMans, Moss refused to drive the car until Ferrari installed a radio for him so he could listen to classical music while driving. So what did you listen to at LeMans JP?

[cdh]

Originally Posted by Jim Pace

I have a few pics of the car....All too large for downloading w/o a little help....

Agree with all here on the for the SWB....pardon the drooling

JP - email me the pics and I will scale 'em for ya....need to see

pics@cdharrison.net

.

[cdh]

Ferris Ferrari #1 (audio clips)

Ferris Ferrari #2

Ferris Ferrari #3

Kit cars used in the film (web page)

.

[cdh]

a quick p-shopping....

[dalyduo]

JP
Wonderful story. A truly special car in the hands of Eduardo who drove it as it was meant to be driven, with his slightly less passionate (automotively speaking only) wife at his side who then passes along their adventures to you. Other than driving the car yourself... what could be better? Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.
Pat

Originally Posted by Jim Pace

Pat,
My father-in-law, Eduardo Dibos, purchased a 250SWB new in 1961. Drove & raced chassis #3175GT around South America and in the 1964 Daytona Endurance race finishing 13th. After he passed away the car sat for years and was later sold as a "basket case" to Italy and resold once later. Still resides in Italy.

I have a few pics of the car. One is just prior to loading onto an airliner in Lima Peru on the way to Daytona in 1964. I was given the picture by the chief mechanic. A second photo is taking the greenflag at Daytona w/ Dibos behind the wheel. This from J.J. O'Malley's book on Daytona. The third is of the current owner at a Ferrari meet. (All too large for downloading w/o a little help).

Originally silver, Dibos painted it red for Daytona because "a Ferrari should be red!". Repainted yellow because the current owner had enough red ones.

Great stories from my mother-in-law about traveling in the 250. She hated it! Too fast, too hot, and too loud! But Sr. Dibos loved it!

How cool to talk with one's mother-in-law about road tripping across South America in a 250 SWB???

JP

[John Greist]

Absolutely charming JP. Thanks.

[cdh]

Jim sent the other pics, I love this history, thanks JP!

In Jim's words:
First pic is 250 SWB prior to loading onto aircraft in Lima Peru January 1964. On the way to Daytona Sportcar Endurance race. I think it was called "Continental 250" then, not sure. I received the photo and stories from the heavy set guy, Jamie Oneto, the crew chief. The little boy is Oneto's son. The tall JFK looking gentleman is Eduardo Dibos, my father in law. As memtioned he had the silver car painted red because he thought a Ferrari should be red.



The second photo is taking the green flag at Daytona 1964. Dibos is behind the wheel of red #38. Notice the car has bumpers and turn signals and of course the head lights taped over. They finshed 13th if I recall. I will look up the other drivers as I believe Augie Pabst is in one of the Porsches.



Dibos also ran in the very first Daytona 500 in 1959. First non-gringo in NASCAR! Finshed 5th. Third pic is #37 Dibos at Firecraker 250 at Daytona in July '59 qualified 3rd behind Fireball Robert's Pontiac and ahead of Richard Petty's Plymouth. Finshed 3rd! Note pole was 144 mph and race pace was 140 mph for nearly three hours! (click link for PDF)



Dibos close up shows padding in the T-Bird and latest in racing fashion. Good stuff for sure!

JP

[John Greist]

What a treat - just the right vintage for some of us.

Thanks JP and Doug.

[cdh]

Anyone know what these objects are on the Porsche roof?



damn if this doesn't look like a painting....no filters added, just cropped JP's photo.

[dalyduo]

A wild guess... They look like crudely mounted signal lights. Since these shots pre-date track lights and in-car radio's I'd guess they were there to make the car easily identifiable at night or perhaps for the driver to signal his crew that he planned to come in or to acknowledge their night time signals.

Originally Posted by cdh

Anyone know what these objects are on the Porsche roof?

[sydude]

JP & CDH, brilliant pics & story! Thank you for sharing.

[Slowhands]

now THAT was NASCAR-- real drivers, real cars! Those pictures and stories are good for the soul-- thanks JP and Doug!

[cdh]

Originally Posted by dalyduo

A wild guess... They look like crudely mounted signal lights. Since these shots pre-date track lights and in-car radio's I'd guess they were there to make the car easily identifiable at night or perhaps for the driver to signal his crew that he planned to come in or to acknowledge their night time signals.

I think you're onto something DD. I searched for clues, found this writeup about the 1969 Daytona 24:

After nearly an hour, I finally learned who was who, then darkness fell with a thud. It seemed like one lap it was daytime, the next, darkness. Then learn the cars all over again by their night running lights.

The 908's had side lights at the rear to match their nose and tail panels. #50-green, #51-white, #52-blue, #53-red, and #54-yellow. Our car, (#14) had one red light on the left door post. #96 Corvette had 3 blue lights on its lower left front corner, while #22 Porsche had one yellow light on the left front.

Don Yenko's #11 Camaro had a blinking strobe light, while three sequential yellow blinkers (from left to right) marked Bill Campbell's #77 Porsche. #47 Porsche had 3 blinking green lights, # 43 Porsche had red and green lights, and the Penske Lola, one red light on its roof. But #18 Camaro had the easiest identification - no right headlight - even after 4 pitstops to replace or repair the light.

No mention of roof lights but it's seems possible (they look like Porsche turn signals). The race pictured did not run into the night which would explain not all cars being so equipped, and it was '64.