Skippy Prototype Car ('05-'07): John Greist on the New Skippy Car - Page 2 - Team Juicy Racing's Racing School and Race Series Forums

jdr922 · #51 06-26-2006

Pat..in your discussions with Abhi did you get the sense this new design probably or possibly would be part of the program in '07? Seems like '07 is just around the corner

dalyduo · #52 06-26-2006

They want to make a vendor choice by the end of next month and set sail to integrate the first batch of cars in '07. (probably the national series) As you say much to be worked out. They are aware that full integration won't happen by '07 but to have a first batch up and running next year is probably possible. Would be exciting if that could happen.

AlDelattre · #53 06-26-2006

would be curious to take a look at Gerardo's car post-Montreal and subject that impact loading to an RT....one web snip I saw estimated the pack was going 100-120mph....

gee, we hit those speeds sometimes....and walls...and each other

I"m all for 1) bigger cockpit and 2) safety testing 3) the rest,well, I'll trust everyone's judgetment....

just not sure how well an old-school FF would have made it through that mess....or even 7/10's of it....

dalyduo · #54 06-26-2006

If they build something based on the dimensions of the prototypes and FT3 certify it, you should be very happy.

CMitchell · #55 06-26-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlDelattre

would be curious to take a look at Gerardo's car post-Montreal and subject that impact loading to an RT....one web snip I saw estimated the pack was going 100-120mph....

gee, we hit those speeds sometimes....and walls...and each other

I"m all for 1) bigger cockpit and 2) safety testing 3) the rest,well, I'll trust everyone's judgetment....

just not sure how well an old-school FF would have made it through that mess....or even 7/10's of it....

As safe as you try to make these cars, it's not going to matter unless the HANS device becomes mandatory in Skippy events. Personally, all I see as neccesary for the new car is newer technology (digital gauges, data acquisition on the steering wheel, ect.) and a higher safety standard (wheel tethers, ect.) Something akin to the FBMW car, which I find personally to be a quick, fun to drive racecar.

Thrill · #56 06-27-2006

Bravo! I whole heartedly agree. I am very new to racing muchless SBR. I have completed 2 SBR series races and learned a lot. The comradery and experience I have had is priceless. I know the 'ole saying.."if you wanna play, you gotta pay..", but SBR has already drained my bank account for the season and it's just getting started. This is not due to crash damage either. Paying $4500 - $6000 a weekend is just tough to swallow when your not a fat cat. I love the sport and think SB is a terrific program. But I have to agree with John. If the eye candy is going to drive the price up - even more - maybe Skippy B needs to consider developing a Silver, Gold and Plantinum race series....and serve a lunch besides a loaf of bread and a single jar of jam and peanut butter..=)

sydude · #57 06-27-2006

I moved the Lead Follow discussion into it's own thread, which you can find in the Equipment forum.

http://www.teamjuicyracing.com/forum...ead.php?t=1480

Tanagro · #58 06-27-2006

Has anyone seen these races and or web site. I found out about it in Autosport Mag. It sounds AMAZING to me. This is what the Skip Barber Nationals should be, in my opinion. The regionals could be a less powerful version with the same concept. For $120,000 you get a full season supporting Major events, with the possibility of personalizing your car and have sponsors because of the Magazine & TV coverage & event support in front of a large crowd. This is car looks like our Formula Mazda, but a season doesn't cost you $350,000. They have the same or very similar Van Diemen car with 300 HP Audi 1.8 L Turbo engines with a 50 HP over boost thats limited to 5 uses per race. Anyway just my two cents & i wanted to know what everyone thought. I was in Canada for the F1 race and saw the FM race which was a disaster, unfortunately. In the few laps it ran it was very exciting to watch. I enjoyed it more that the F1 race in many respects. Glad too have read that everyone was OK. I spoke with Gerardo B. team be for the event and got chance to see the cars up close and get some info on FM, I went back after the event and saw the same car in pieces.

Formula Palmer web site

www.formula-palmer-audi.com/index.aspx

jdc916 · #59 06-27-2006

Yep.... they used to call it the Barber Dodge Pro Series

Gerardo · #60 06-28-2006

Regarding existing cars like the FSCCA, remember that our series cars go through over 25,000 race miles per year. There is no race car in the world that lives through this duty cycle. Using an existing design could lead us down the same road that created the R/T 2000, as we would need to modify an existing design to handle the mileage and training situations.

Building and designing a new car from scratch, with an existing design as a starting point from the two vendors, allows SBRS to start off with a car that addresses our unique needs. If we do this right, and I believe we can, we could have a car that is no more expensive than our current car, have better safety features, be easier to service, more fun to drive, and serve as a great teaching tool.

Let's see what the team can come up with.

One topic that still comes up that I would like to hear input on is the transmission type. I don't know for sure, but I think the type is still up in the air. H-Pattern or Sequential? Either would likely be 5-speed. Keep in mind our mission, we train drivers to drive race cars, often driving cars in other series from sports cars, to club racing, to IndyCars. We also provide a venue to have fun and learn something while you're at it. Which would you choose for a Skip Barber car? Which would prepare you best for the future? Which would be fun for you?

Editor: I copied Gerardo's reply and moved all of the posts regarding the 'H Pattern vs. Sequential Transmission' discussion into it's own thread, which you can find here.

Jim Pace · #61 07-16-2006

One of the big issues w/ Skippy racecars is the durability requirement compared to other series. The average SCCA formula car runs 8-10 weekends for practice, qualifying, and a race. Three half hour sessions comes to 1.5 hours per wekend for maybe 10 weekends. That shcedule is a busy season for many regional SCCA racers. So 15 hours of track time per year. The cars can be lite weight w/ high performance parts replaced as needed...every 10-15 hours or once a year.

A Skippy car runs 4-5 hrs a day for 7 days straight on raceweeks (ADV2, Lapping, Practice, Race). I drive them 6-7 hrs a day for Lead Follow on Wed, Thurs, Friday that's more in 3 days than an SCCA regional car in a year! Obviously it takes a durable racecar to run that many miles consistently w/ minimal maintainence.

The challenge ahead of the Skippy team is a unnique one in that the car needs to be Safe, Fun, Durable, Repairable, and Affordable. Designing and building a new car is difficult and just like driving...if it were easy more people would be doing it.

JP
JP

John Greist · #62 07-16-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Pace

One of the big issues w/ Skippy racecars is the durability requirement compared to other series. The average SCCA formula car runs 8-10 weekends for practice, qualifying, and a race. Three half hour sessions comes to 1.5 hours per wekend for maybe 10 weekends. That shcedule is a busy season for many regional SCCA racers. So 15 hours of track time per year. The cars can be lite weight w/ high performance parts replaced as needed...every 10-15 hours or once a year.

A Skippy car runs 4-5 hrs a day for 7 days straight on raceweeks (ADV2, Lapping, Practice, Race). I drive them 6-7 hrs a day for Lead Follow on Wed, Thurs, Friday that's more in 3 days than an SCCA regional car in a year! Obviously it takes a durable racecar to run that many miles consistently w/ minimal maintainence.

The challenge ahead of the Skippy team is a unnique one in that the car needs to be Safe, Fun, Durable, Repairable, and Affordable. Designing and building a new car is difficult and just like driving...if it were easy more people would be doing it.

JP
JP

All the right emphases from my perspective: Safe, Fun, Durable, Repairable and Affordable. No mean feat. It's admirable that SBR has encouraged commenttary and is bringing remarkable collective resources to bear as the car(s) take shape.

chsutherland · #63 07-20-2006

is that a panoz badge on the front of the car?

dalyduo · #64 07-20-2006

Yes, one was built by Panoz in Florida.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chsutherland

is that a panoz badge on the front of the car?

dlippert · #65 07-20-2006

But it is really an Elan

Sz28r · #66 07-21-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Pace

I drive them 6-7 hrs a day for Lead Follow on Wed, Thurs, Friday

Man, I wish I could get that much seat time

Steve
TFR

John Greist · #67 07-22-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sz28r

Man, I wish I could get that much seat time

Steve
TFR

Wish I could stand that much seat time and still be able to stand. Wow!

PeteOlson · #68 09-23-2006

Hi John,
How are you? I think your email is right on, in all its points. I have been living in Asia the past few years, working and racing out here in karts, Formula Campus, and Formula Renault, I am a graduate of Skippy [and Russell, among others] and had a few Skippy races and some Formula Mazda before racing out here in Formula Renault.

I did win a race in Shanghai in the 'rookie' class in Formula Renault, the week before the first F1 race, but...at such a dear cost. When you factor in the travel, testing/practice fees, liability, and tire costs of a Formula Renault weekend, it is great racing but VERY, VERY expensive [about $15-20k].
HOWEVER, in the current Skippy program, for an entire season, it is already relatively expensive [$50k when you factor in everything]. The new car looks very sweet, but I just hope things don't get out of control. Sponsorship for Skippy racing is a pipe dream below the National level [and those that have it, have it from long-term relationships from career/major family support], there is little media coverage, hospitality, etc to offer any prospecitve sponsor....however, it being a 'feeder' series, that is expected.
My long-winded point is, it is already $50k to run a regoinal season in Skippy, and I can tell you from my Formula Renault experience in China [Shanghai/Zhuhai] that tearing off a front wing for $2000 USD or worse yet, punching a hole in the carbon fibre tub [as I have done] for $7000USD would just turn away customers/racers. It would be more high-level racing, but would lose the essence of Skippy. There is always pro Mazda or such for those who want to take the next step [Pro Mazda seems = Formula Renault, and even has coverage on speedvision, etc in the USA, maybe it would be easier to land sponsors], but the essence of Skippy, and what attracted me and I think most others in the first place was equal cars, 'relatively affordable' cost, etc.....
"You give me a car and I'll win Daytona next year."
Pete 0-0

WatertownNewbie · #69 09-24-2006

The focus of this thread (for the most part) has been on major car components. On the other hand, and this is someting akin to the placement of the coffee cup holder in your family car, there is another item that I would like to raise while the powers-that-be are still in the design and testing phase ...

Many drivers use timers, which typically are mounted on a clip that slips over the windscreen and that requires duct tape or some other method to keep it in place. Would it be possible to have the windscreen designed to hold a timer securely for those who have one and yet not be a visual distraction for those who drive without a timer? Ideas, anyone?

sydude · #70 09-24-2006

Ted, this will be covered in one of the upcoming 'New Skippy Car Component Surveys'.

cdh · #71 09-24-2006

clips are available for timers on R/Ts as they will be on the new car.

Martin Zimmerman · #72 10-05-2006

Hi John;

I have driven Crossle 32F, 50F, B1 and the RT.

The 32F was a nice car to drive, quite predictable. When I started the 32F were in their last year or so of use.

The 50F was an interesting car. Handled well, but with one provision. When under braking the car felt as though the front had stopped and the rear was 'catching up'. Huge chassis flex.

The B1, predessor to the RT was a good car. The B1 is a 50F Front Suspension/32F rear Suspension with a Stenghtenen chassis. The Roll Bar/Front Hoop was added for safety. The Roll Bar Braces were added later. A Roll Bar Collapsed, resulting in the need for the braces.

The engine swap, Ford to Dodge was a plus. Carburetor to Fuel Injection! A beautiful thing! The balance of the engine (weight) posed a problem. The Dodge was heavier at the top of the motor than the Ford. Springing etc, solved that.

Most of know about the RT.

My main concern with the new car is not will it handle, how sexy it looks.

Cost.

My racing budget is limited, I love to race. The cost of racing has climbed to where I can do three or so races a year, not the full seasons that I had been doing.

I understand the need to update the cars. The Carbon Fiber Chassis seems like it will cost more. But really? It might be like the cost of a PC. When new(the technology) the cost is huge. But Carbon Fiber has been around for at least a decade, so it is New Tech, but perhaps Old Tech for a manufacturing viewpoint.

My two cents worth.

John Greist · #73 10-06-2006

Pete and Martin recur to the theme that is the proper focus. We can surely go faster, but at what cost. If we go faster, will it be more competitive and more fun? If so, it might be worth additional cost to some, but we've already reached the price point where few are running whole series and that's too bad.

There are 187 racers listed in East and Midwest Regionals and 24 (13%) ran every weekend or all but one weekend. Half were Masters or older.

Carbon fiber tubs, better wings, slicks, telemetry, and going faster for the same or lower cost could be great. RT-2000s or school cars at a lower cost with more drivers able to afford more racing would be wonderful.

cdh · #74 10-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Greist

RT-2000s or school cars at a lower cost with more drivers able to afford more racing would be wonderful.

Amen Doc....

Tanagro · #75 10-07-2006

I think thats a great idea, if i understood correctly. Why not have a new car series at a somewhat greater expense (25 to 50 % more) with all the bells and whistles, and a separate series with the RT / 2000 and for the school.

999 · #76 10-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanagro

I think thats a great idea, if i understood correctly. Why not have a new car series at a somewhat greater expense (25 to 50 % more) with all the bells and whistles, and a separate series with the RT / 2000 and for the school.

I don't think that's what Father John meant, but it is an interesting idea. I wasn't around when Barber Pro existed, but suspect that the fate of that series suggests there is only one series in the future.

Too bad, it seems to answer a lot of the challenges.