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Old 08-17-2011
teelado teelado is offline
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Skip Barber Racing School

I'm afraid the time has come, the end is near. It appears that SBRS has been mis-managed and run into the groud. People have left, people have been fired [edit by sydude: the rest of this sentence is likely libelous, so I've deleted it.]

The end is near, close the doors, ruffle the feathers one last time.

The cars are old, the price is too high. they just can't compete any longer. It's over.

goodbye old friend, but your new management team has brought a legend to its knees.

Skip himself would be ashamed at how MC and KS have run this place into the ground!

This is a Harvard program entitled "How to ruin a company!" Lessons learned.

Goodbye old friend, it was nice knowing you.

Last edited by sydude; 08-18-2011 at 12:00 PM. Reason: Added me as the editor.
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Old 08-18-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

I'll still go.
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Old 08-18-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

Quote:
Originally Posted by PageTwo View Post
I'll still go.
Yep. Me too. I don't play much, and I'm sorry to see there are fewer familiar faces, but I'll sign up anytime I can make it work.

From the Teelado profile page: "teelado has not made any friends yet" Well duh.
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Old 08-18-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

I'll gladly take up your freed up seat and double up for my next race. If you miss someone so badly go buy them dinner or something, but Skip Barber today is, IMHO, being run very well. I find the staff is more friendly and courteous than ever, the cars have actually improved since I did this for the first time, and the instructor's feedback has gotten better and better, particularly the last 2 years.

Races are fun, cars are safe, and prices are more than reasonable. And as much as I've heard people complain lately about "the spirit of SB, blah blah blah", the thing is still a freaking business run by people trying to make money out of it...and there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.

If you want a hug, go get it somewhere else. We are busy having driving.


Cheerss
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Old 08-18-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

teelado (hiding behind a first name of "Bill") doesn't have the balls to stand behind his words with a real identity, yet he edits his post because he thinks what he's saying might be libelous?

We respect and encourage differing opinions here. We have no respect for opinions good or bad from hidden identities.
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Old 08-18-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalyduo View Post
...yet he edits his post because he thinks what he's saying might be libelous?
I believe that was Sy's edit - good call...and good post DD
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Old 08-18-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalyduo View Post
teelado (hiding behind a first name of "Bill") doesn't have the balls to stand behind his words with a real identity, yet he edits his post because he thinks what he's saying might be libelous?

We respect and encourage differing opinions here. We have no respect for opinions good or bad from hidden identities.
The site admins edited his post not mr mystery bill
(one of the other admins not me )
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Old 08-18-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

Right you are boys... my bad on the edit... Didn't notice Sy's byline at the bottom when I made my comment. Still thumbs down on the hidden identity.
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Old 08-18-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

I have zero issue with anonymity - it has its place when a customer or employee etc has something of value they wish to air out but have reasonable fears of retribution.

I also don't think it's inappropriate to have a hard and critical review of Skip Barber's current situation and how it got here. If the poster was trying to start one, then I think it has some merit.

But what I do have an issue with is the overall intent of the poster and the limited value of content in the post - this was simply a personal dig at the persons named in the post and added nothing useful for anyone to take forward. If you're going to make bold statements like that, especially anonymously, you'd better back it up with facts and well thought-out reasoning/analysis. Let me jump in with two easy counterpoints (especially since he didn't back them up) to the original poster's blanket statements:
1. "The end is near, close the doors" ... "It's over." ... Skippy may be in a bad cash / financial position at this point time (or maybe NOT - none of us are privy to the real details and/or recent financial happenings), but I believe that there is still an IMMENSE amount of Brand Value and Goodwill left, more than enough for current or future management to turn things around. There is plenty of life left in the old girl, and can survive through a few more wars before she's depleted that value.

2. "your new management team has brought a legend to its knees." ... "Skip himself would be ashamed at how MC and KS have run this place into the ground!" ... If a proper analysis needs to be done about the "who, what, when and how" of Skippy's problems, then at the LATEST you need to begin with Aaron's (and include George's) contributions to Skippy's current woes. MC did not inherit this company from Aaron in a wonderfully healthy state - for the most part, it fell into his hands by default, and the deck he was handed was not an easy one to begin with. In my opinion, Aaron and George's tenure of ownership and management contributed to Skippy's problems far more significantly than anything you could pin on anyone else. I believe their tenure was substantially defined by their:
1) Arrogance towards customers, employees and vendors - they pushed away the most strident and important advocates as well as the company's most valuable financial partners;

2) Complete lack of understanding of the company's products, marketplace and especially customer mindset;

3) General management incompetence; and finally...

4) Treating the company and its assets as a personal amusement, ego booster and/or point to prove. It was clear to anyone who dealt with them that they didn't give nearly as much of a shit about the company's health as compared to feeding their own personality complexes.
All that being said, I can't say that I think current management has done things perfectly either. But I do believe that MC and KS at the very least care a lot about the company and about doing the right things. The intent was and is there, in my opinion. Execution is separate, but I'm too out of the loop these days to be of value there.
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Old 08-18-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

Well said, Sy, and I agree wholeheartedly with every one of your points. The company's debt load was acquired over a considerable period of time and present management has accomplished the tough job of reducing and restructuring it in a really challenging environment.
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Old 08-18-2011
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Western Re: Skip Barber Racing School

I agree, no one can rightly lay the blame/responsibility on MC and KS.

I think they are doing their best to right a listing ship. But like the economy and jobs, these things do take time.

My opinion is to give the MC and KS team time to get Skip Barber on track.

I have worked for the Skip Barber organization for 26+ years, I am not tossing in the towel yet.
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Old 08-18-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

I agree with Sy that there are legitimate arguments for not revealing identity but this is not one of them. This is the act of a disgruntled former customer with an ax to grind. Zero respect for someone hiding in the weeds, throwing shit in the water, offering no context to evaluate their statements and no concern for those left behind. A post designed for maximum damage at no cost to the troll making it. Zero respect.

Our devotion to a forum that creates space for passionate SBRS discussion continues. We all have thoughts and feelings about the changes that are taking place and there is plenty to discuss. Sy did a thoughtful job of laying out some of those issues. No matter what your opinion of SB, past or present, I like how fast Sy and the membership took back the discussion and elevated it.

You don't have to like or agree with what's going on and you're free to express it here, but we're never going to applaud anonymous hand grenade throwers for a cowardly act.
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Last edited by dalyduo; 08-19-2011 at 12:45 PM.
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  #13  
Old 08-19-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

While we may not agree with anyone's particular sentiment I don't think we should worry about one person's views and whether or not their comments are potentially libelous.

The founders and administrators of this site are not responsible for statements of others unless they are complicit in making the statements.

This is America and I hope we would not have fear of someone voicing their opinion. What are we afraid of? Obviously this person is upset with the current state of affairs and is fearful of possible retribution if their identity was known. Hence the sniping.

On the other hand I do understand the spirit and theme of this site and feel it is within the founders' rights to monitor content and make decisions as to whether content is appropriate.

I say let freedom ring and let people voice their opinion....BUT consider the source....if the source is unknown why give it so much weight?
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Old 08-19-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

I didn't edit out part of his viewpoint - what I deleted were two specific financial allegations that were likely inaccurate and certainly inappropriate. The rest stayed put.
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Old 08-19-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

Quote:
Originally Posted by sydude View Post
I didn't edit out part of his viewpoint - what I deleted were two specific financial allegations that were likely inaccurate and certainly inappropriate. The rest stayed put.
Understood...still censorship....sorry...lost a lot of good family and friends during the Communist takeover of China.....
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Old 08-19-2011
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Western Re: Skip Barber Racing School

I think Sy done good. In this day and time.... I think that the site owners could also be held responsible for things that are posted here.

If the post had been removed... then I would also be concerned with censorship.... but to remove something that could cause someone else to be held liable is OK in my book.... now if I can find my book....
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Old 08-19-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck View Post
I think Sy done good. In this day and time.... I think that the site owners could also be held responsible for things that are posted here.

If the post had been removed... then I would also be concerned with censorship.... but to remove something that could cause someone else to be held liable is OK in my book.... now if I can find my book....
as the owner of a web site hosting company, we have been served several times for this kind of non sense.
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Old 08-20-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

Kinda killing a messenger maybe? I, of all people, understand the passion involved here(and have way more riding on this than everyone in this post), but perhaps we are a little harsh in judgement of Teedalo's need for hidden identity. If we truly care about the future of SBRS, have we missed a chance to learn something from someone in a position of knowledge by not turning a friendly ear to somebody who apparently is looking for a place of like minded friends to rant?
Obviously Teedalo is passionate, or he would not take the time to register and place such an ominous warning to our site members, if he didn't think something could be done. Perhaps he has been turned sour by some recent events and might not have any real info, or perhaps he does.
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Old 08-20-2011
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Western Re: Skip Barber Racing School

Rob, I think that the message has been left posted because of the desire to have an open discussion. The only censorship is in removing something that could be libelous. And I agree with that because it the website that can be liable.

As to "...have we missed a chance to learn something from someone in a position of knowledge ...", that is an unknown because we do not know the Author and if he/she/it is in a position of knowledge. I would take "facts" from an unknown source as unreliable data.
And I understand the Author wanting to remain behind the cloak of being unknown. The person can a current employee of SBRS, related to a person who works for SBRS, etc, etc.
But the Author really needs to rant and vent with no libelous statements.

And BTW, I also "... have way more riding on this than everyone in this post"
We are like Breakfast partcipation of the Chicken and the Hog. The Chicken is involved and the Hog is committed.
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Old 08-20-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

Been crafting a response for the last hour and looked up to see Redneck's thoughtful and eloquent response. He nailed it... Thanks Redneck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rslonaker View Post
Kinda killing a messenger maybe? I, of all people, understand the passion involved here(and have way more riding on this than everyone in this post), but perhaps we are a little harsh in judgement of Teedalo's need for hidden identity. If we truly care about the future of SBRS, have we missed a chance to learn something from someone in a position of knowledge by not turning a friendly ear to somebody who apparently is looking for a place of like minded friends to rant?
Obviously Teedalo is passionate, or he would not take the time to register and place such an ominous warning to our site members, if he didn't think something could be done. Perhaps he has been turned sour by some recent events and might not have any real info, or perhaps he does.
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Old 08-22-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

Quote:
Originally Posted by rslonaker View Post
Kinda killing a messenger maybe? I, of all people, understand the passion involved here(and have way more riding on this than everyone in this post), but perhaps we are a little harsh in judgement of Teedalo's need for hidden identity. If we truly care about the future of SBRS, have we missed a chance to learn something from someone in a position of knowledge by not turning a friendly ear to somebody who apparently is looking for a place of like minded friends to rant?
Obviously Teedalo is passionate, or he would not take the time to register and place such an ominous warning to our site members, if he didn't think something could be done. Perhaps he has been turned sour by some recent events and might not have any real info, or perhaps he does.
OK, cards on table then...is this really "someone in a position of knowledge" "looking for a place of like minded friends to rant"? Given the sarcastic tone of the original post whilst knowing nothing of the identity of the new user/first time poster, skepticism and irritation in replies is not surprising. We would like to offer an olive branch to Teelado and ask him/her/them to add to the discussion he/she/they began. Nothing to fear here if this is legit, since we are the biggest SBRS fans on Earth. Without any more feedback from Teelado, my skepticism filter is still operating at 100%.
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Old 08-22-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

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Originally Posted by cdh View Post
OK, cards on table then...is this really "someone in a position of knowledge" "looking for a place of like minded friends to rant"? Given the sarcastic tone of the original post whilst knowing nothing of the identity of the new user/first time poster, skepticism and irritation in replies is not surprising. We would like to offer an olive branch to Teelado and ask him/her/them to add to the discussion he/she/they began. Nothing to fear here if this is legit, since we are the biggest SBRS fans on Earth. Without any more feedback from Teelado, my skepticism filter is still operating at 100%.
Have to agree with you there Doug. Hiding identity understandable for REAL whistleblowers, ie govt, national security, corporate exploitative/discriminatory practices/fraud, etc etc. This is a racing school-- hardly going out on a ledge. In these circumstances remaining covert suggests an ulterior agenda, whether or not it exists. "Sunlight is the best disinfectant." Can't understand why someone wouldn't want to stand behind their statements. Besides everything expressed in teelado's post is basically hearsay/innuendo and quite devoid of factual support. Like traders who start rumors to try to move the market in the direction of their positions. I believe if teelado wanted a constructive discussion, he/she would have said constructive things.
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Old 08-22-2011
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Re: Skip Barber Racing School

It's been up and down for years, in fact, the mid 70's... It's a hobby, that makes a little money, and people keep thinking it's the next Starbucks, trying to force the business bigger. The reality is, it's a nitch market... Always will be... However, back to the original post... Post facts or post nothing... Even better, post pics or it didn't happen!!!
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