New Jersey set to host second US GP (?)

[Moxie]

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/174296/...ond_us_gp.html

[oldredracer]

Shivers are running up and down my leg in anticipation of the ticket prices for this one. Bernie too, I suppose, but for a different reason.
I KNEW we should never have moved out of Weehawken. There's a sweeping left-hander on Boulevard East leading to a 90 that would run right past our old place. Excellent passing opportunity. Turn-in would involve removing the statue of Hamilton, but as it's Al, not Lewis, that won't be a problem.

[rslonaker]

Possible track map?
http://twitpic.com/74p9t0

[oldredracer]

Originally Posted by rslonaker

Possible track map?
http://twitpic.com/74p9t0

By golly, it WILL run past the house. I thought Liberty Park was in the running.

[rslonaker]

And here is the elevation render. They must be planning to make a semi-permanent track in Liberty Park? Paul, is there a road in there like this?
http://twitpic.com/75pe2j

[cdh]

Mostly existing roads - street racers will be going crazy running it. I am "driving it" now in google street view. Some residents will have incredible seats, much work to do. I'm snapping screenshots, will post in a bit. Very cool

[cdh]

So did Sy choose the right name for his indoor racing mecca or what??? GPNY baby

[cdh]

Google street views of the proposed circuit. T19, S/F and then up Pershing Rd were not available. Pretty amazing proposal given how much need be done in preparation. I can't imagine this wont be very disruptive to many in these neighborhoods. No doubt debate will follow from the local associations but wow, it would be amazing!

Album of pics

[cdh]

From a Google Earth pic - added proposed S/F, paddock and pits, T18 - T6

[dalyduo]

The amazing thing about this location is that it's been sitting fallow for decades. Imperiale built a ferry boat terminal over there decades ago and I used to go over with a friend and hit golf balls at a driving range they built because there was so much undeveloped land no one knew what to do with it. They've built a couple of piers with housing on them but for the most part it has been this unused location with an amazing view of Manhattan forever and someone finally figured it out. What's really clever is no one will lose access to their homes during the event as the course doesn't cut off access to anyone. All the municipalities are on board and the state isn't kicking in a dime to the deal. NYC will benefit hugely as it will be in the background of almost every shot of the course. Hotels and restaurants will be packed and you'll be able to get to the track on public transportation. Brilliant. The course has wonderful elevation changes and is long for a street track. I'll be able to hear the cars from my Upper West Side apartment windows that face the river... Though I probably won't be in the apartment much of the time... Just my DVR recording everything on Speed Channel.

[Dalytrio]

DAD DO YOU REALIZE THAT WE WONT EVEN HAVE TO BUY TICKETS???? WE CAN JUST GO TO THE ROOF OF THE BUILDING AND USE BINOCULARS. OH MY GOD IM SO EXCITED. AS EVIDENT FROM THE ALL CAPS POST. VROOOOOOM

Originally Posted by dalyduo

The amazing thing about this location is that it's been sitting fallow for decades. Imperiale built a ferry boat terminal over there decades ago and I used to go over with a friend and hit golf balls at a driving range they built because there was so much undeveloped land no one knew what to do with it. They've built a couple of piers with housing on them but for the most part it has been this unused location with an amazing view of Manhattan forever and someone finally figured it out. What's really clever is no one will lose access to their homes during the event as the course doesn't cut off access to anyone. All the municipalities are on board and the state isn't kicking in a dime to the deal. NYC will benefit hugely as it will be in the background of almost every shot of the course. Hotels and restaurants will be packed and you'll be able to get to the track on public transportation. Brilliant. The course has wonderful elevation changes and is long for a street track. I'll be able to hear the cars from my Upper West Side apartment windows that face the river... Though I probably won't be in the apartment much of the time... Just my DVR recording everything on Speed Channel.

[oldredracer]

Originally Posted by rslonaker

And here is the elevation render. They must be planning to make a semi-permanent track in Liberty Park? Paul, is there a road in there like this?

Rob, it took me a while to figure out where Liberty Park was, especially because one report I read said the track was in NJ AND NY. When I lived there, Liberty Park had no name, just 3 or 4 trees and a fence. The major north/south road was just Boulevard East then also (pre-JFK. Heck. Pre-Hoover). Trio's first pic is looking down River Road toward the river, with a VERY big elevation change as it runs down to the river from the Palisades and then all the way north to Englewood.
While all racers must be excited about all this, I'm going to lay awake nights picturing all those roads WITHOUT potholes. With people trapped for days in their houses, separated from shopping by catch fencing and striped curbing, commerce (except Bernie's) at a standstill, although the little bodega on the opposite corner from the River Road pic must be pre-ordering beer by the truckload, F1 cars at full song roaring past the hospital and the Hudson ala Monaco. It should be noted that since my birth, every mayor from Englewood due south to Hoboken has been indicted or convicted of something nefarious.
Anybody got an over/under on how long this will last after the neighbors find out?

[dalyduo]

I believe Liberty Park is down near the Statue of Liberty. This location is directly across the Hudson from midtown Manhattan. The south end of the course is at about 50th street and the north end is about 74th street. It's looking out on the same area of the river where the "Miracle on the Hudson" took place.

The track area won't enclose any existing housing so they should be able to manage local traffic without preventing ingress or egress during the race.

Interesting logistics for sure but I'll bet they work it out. t's about three weeks of inconvenience locally but there will be a lot of jobs and money flowing their way so most will like it and there will only be live cars running for 3 days sd it's a once a year event not a year round racing facility.

I've no doubt the right palms will be greased to make some mostly undervalued property come alive for the people who've been sitting on it for decades.

Originally Posted by rslonaker

And here is the elevation render. They must be planning to make a semi-permanent track in Liberty Park? Paul, is there a road in there like this?
http://twitpic.com/75pe2j

[cdh]

Originally Posted by oldredracer

Rob, it took me a while to figure out where Liberty Park was, especially because one report I read said the track was in NJ AND NY. When I lived there, Liberty Park had no name, just 3 or 4 trees and a fence. The major north/south road was just Boulevard East then also (pre-JFK. Heck. Pre-Hoover). Trio's first pic is looking down River Road toward the river, with a VERY big elevation change as it runs down to the river from the Palisades and then all the way north to Englewood.
While all racers must be excited about all this, I'm going to lay awake nights picturing all those roads WITHOUT potholes. With people trapped for days in their houses, separated from shopping by catch fencing and striped curbing, commerce (except Bernie's) at a standstill, although the little bodega on the opposite corner from the River Road pic must be pre-ordering beer by the truckload, F1 cars at full song roaring past the hospital and the Hudson ala Monaco. It should be noted that since my birth, every mayor from Englewood due south to Hoboken has been indicted or convicted of something nefarious.
Anybody got an over/under on how long this will last after the neighbors find out?

Where is Trio's pic ORR? Good points about noise/residents/hospitals disruption, etc. There is so much to be done to make these streets race-worthy it will be very interesting to watch it play out. Skirmishes expected, hopefully the locals will see benefits. Agree, NJ corruption is a benchmark topped only by Chicago, and the local union bosses will want to have some chats with Bernie I suspect.

My cuz lives in Hoboken, might be a good time to pay a visit

Trio, not sure about the rooftop viewing from UWS, how is your line of site to Weehawken? Wonder why they didn't call it the Weehawken GP?

[jonfontane]

Up until about 3 years ago, my sister lived RIGHT on the course! Now I can never forgive here for getting married and moving to the burbs.

[dalyduo]

The north end of the course will U-turn on the Jersey side of the Hudson about 20 blocks south of our location on the NYC side. We won't be able to see them but the sounds of the cars will most likely echo this far. The roads for the proposed track are such that they'll be able to upgrade and/or resurface any sections needed well ahead of the event and other than the temporary inconvenience of re-paving it will only make their local driving experience better in the long run. The local towns had to be on board with this before the governor would give his approval and he also stipulated no state money could be used to make it happen. All the seed and sanctioning money is being provided by promoters. It's not a hard sell because all the property values in the area will get a bump from being part of a major world class sporting event. The F1 traveling circus will arrive and leave their towns in 2-3 weeks once a year. The overall benefit in almost every case far outweighs the inconvenience. New Jersey benefits, NYC benefits and if you're going to have the best racers in the world driving the most technically sophisticated race cars on an interesting and challenging road course with elevation changes in front of the Manhattan skyline... What's not to like? Nobody's better at putting on massive public events than NYC and it's New Jersey neighbors simply because they do it all the time. It's not unusual to have a concert in Central Park with 100,000 people. The Giants and Jets average over 78,000 fans per home game. There are over 8 million people in the five boroughs of NYC and over 18 million in the entire metropolitan area... So there is no place on the planet better equipped to understand the vagaries of a big event like this and... They do it all the time. That's also why Bernie wants it to happen. It's the biggest metropolitan area on the planet with a built in audience and knowledge base that he couldn't get anywhere else. The location is New Jersey but the kicker is all the hotels, restaurants and attractions of NYC get thrown in for free. Plus all the mass transit systems that get hundreds of thousands of people into NYC and across the Hudson to NJ every day will work perfectly to bring people to the race circuit without using cars. Hey... It's a no brainer... Fahgetaboutit!!

Originally Posted by cdh

Where is Trio's pic ORR? Good points about noise/residents/hospitals disruption, etc. There is so much to be done to make these streets race-worthy it will be very interesting to watch it play out. Skirmishes expected, hopefully the locals will see benefits. Agree, NJ corruption is a benchmark topped only by Chicago, and the local union bosses will want to have some chats with Bernie I suspect.

My cuz lives in Hoboken, might be a good time to pay a visit

Trio, not sure about the rooftop viewing from UWS, how is your line of site to Weehawken? Wonder why they didn't call it the Weehawken GP?

[GregS]

im looking via zillow to see if i can go buy a house on the track, who wants in?!

[dalyduo]

If the price is right... The problem is we only really want it for 3 days a year...

[cdh]

Here is a lap of the existing roads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxvbfm8P47Y

[oldredracer]

Originally Posted by cdh

Here is a lap of the existing roads

Doug, thanks for the ride through the old neighborhood. Do you see any way this can happen without trapping thousands of people in their homes for about a week??? The governor said no inconvenience to the locals at all but he lives in Trenton.

[cdh]

Originally Posted by oldredracer

Doug, thanks for the ride through the old neighborhood. Do you see any way this can happen without trapping thousands of people in their homes for about a week??? The governor said no inconvenience to the locals at all but he lives in Trenton.

You would know better than I, but trapped in their homes during the race prep and racing? No, I would think they have a solution to that. Inconveniencing them tremendously? Yes, I would imagine.

I was thinking more of the construction phases. What exactly needs to be done to make this an F1 circuit? This goes so far beyond new road surfaces. If there are manholes in any of those roads, they will need to be removed, alternate drainage systems possibly needed, that means major construction. Think of what will have to be done at the end of the downhill Defino run into the T15-16 Hairpin. The cars will be traveling near 200 MPH approaching the area and a large run-off area is required. That means some serious construction there, and Port Imperial Blvd seems like a busy road, utility poles will need to be relocated, barriers installed, kerbs, etc. Those are residential towers right there. I suspect that is peanuts compared to what needs to be done to the very busy and confined JFK Blvd. That is a light commercial and residential area, you'd think making it safe for F1 cars racing at 160+ MPH will require major surgery, and therefore be very disruptive to residents and businesses.

I am very excited about it for sure, really want it to happen, but to say this wont go down without inconveniencing thousands and producing local fights is unrealistic. My 2 quarters.

[dalyduo]

Paul if you look at the street map, all the homes that are next to the proposed course have full side street access to their buildings. Will they be inconvenienced not having access to the main road in front of their homes? Undoubtedly, but they will all be able to drive right up to their homes on the side streets next to them that exit out in other directions. It won't take many long to figure out there will be a buck to be made renting course front homes and apartments to fans showing up from all around the world. The scramble won't be to stop it from happening... It'll be to cash in on their location.

Doug's points are well taken about the engineering and planning that must be done to make the location race worthy and safe for drivers and spectators. The good news is there is enough lead time to make that happen in a responsible and timely fashion. Whether it will or not is another question. We'll only know for sure in June of 2013 but most of us hope they pull it off in grand style.

Originally Posted by oldredracer

Doug, thanks for the ride through the old neighborhood. Do you see any way this can happen without trapping thousands of people in their homes for about a week??? The governor said no inconvenience to the locals at all but he lives in Trenton.

[cdh]

I couldn't get this clip out of my head...watch from 2:00 - 3:00. Hey, like it or not it is a fact of contracting life in NY & NJ.
I know, first hand knowledge, we ran a NY union shop, commercial HVAC contracting company. Not fun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlVDGmjz7eM

[dalyduo]

Having worked on union feature films, industrials and commercial shoots in NYC, NJ and CT as a location scout and production person for many years I also got to learn and deal with the various groups who had and used their leverage to extract money in exchange for allowing things to run smoothly. If you've got Chris Christie on board and all the mayors and political figures of the surrounding towns you've already got Rodney's view covered because these guys know what's involved. And if you watched the news conference there was at least half an hour of thanking a long list of every political figure in every municipality within a wide radius of the proposed track. That wasn't an accident. That's sending a message to everyone saying this is a good thing for us and it's going to happen. Will there be bumps in the road? Sure. Could I be wrong? Without a doubt. But the way this thing was set up and announced with the key guy being the guy who started the YES network and who knows what production and union life is like in the New York area... That is a really good place to start. Hey... You never know but the initial lining up of ducks looks good from my limited perspective.

[sydude]

Most importantly, who thinks that the NJ GP will take place BEFORE the Austin F1 race ever does? And who also thinks that the Austin F1 race won't ever happen at all?

[dalyduo]

Here's a decent synopsis of the current scuttlebutt. Hard to tell if it's the tip of a doomsday iceberg or just stirring the pot.
Considering all the money and infrastructure that must be put in place to first have the F1 dog and pony show arrive there for a couple of weeks a year and then to keep a flow of activities and commerce happening year round to maintain it... I'd probably bet on Jersey first seeing an F1 car. Hope I'm wrong though and we all get to see F1 in NJ and TX.

http://www.insideline.com/car-news/w...-f1-track.html

[cdh]

Large rendering of proposed circuit

good detail

was wondering what the space is for the grandstands at T5-6, checking satellite view, that is the Exxon station.
Wonder if there are plans to buy them out? If not it will be the world's busiest mini-mart

[rslonaker]

Good find Doug, all they need is a tunnel and a casino and it will be just like that other street race... you know... what's it called... its got a swimming pool, and a harbor, and hotels...

[cdh]

Originally Posted by rslonaker

Good find Doug, all they need is a tunnel and a casino and it will be just like that other street race... you know... what's it called... its got a swimming pool, and a harbor, and hotels...

right, the one with all the cafes and what not...

Of interest, the "F1 Temporary Concrete Wall with FIA-Fence" around the rail tunnel.

[GregS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m10_f...layer_embedded

[cdh]

Impressive, awesome, thanks Greg!

[cdh]

Sir Jackie chimes in:

"So, it needs an American driver. That is something that we all recognize and there are good American drivers, but there is not kindergarten, primary school, secondary school not University the way there is in Europe for motorsport."

Stewart: New Jersey race will be great for F1

(btw, checked his % of US population with passports and gov says it's actually 21.4%, still surprising)

[coreymac]

So excited for F1 in New Jersey!!!

[cdh]

Interesting...

Five minutes with... Leo Hindery Jr.

and this

Three-day race hits local streets in 2013
Formula One cars in WNY, Weehawken could peak at 200 MPH

and in nearby Jersey City -

[cdh]

some good views in this vid...

[dalyduo]

Based on the preceding "5 Minutes..." article there is no question this is so going to happen. He totally gets what must be done to make it work both politically and practically. While I doubt there will be many owners and drivers rooming in New Jersey there will be thousands of hotel rooms and meals served there for race fans. It will bring a significant financial bounce for both states.

It's his long range view of what must be done to make the track viable and the event meaningful that gets you excited. He has the vision necessary to make it happen. Construction has already begun on a facility that won't be used for two years. By putting people to work building it before even announcing what it is makes it difficult to stop. They've got the land and the layout, people are already being paid to build the infrastructure and the all the politicians are on board. There may be some local land owners who will object to having their home turf invaded once a year but I suspect the vast majority will embrace it realizing the value of their investment will be up year round while the inconvenience of the race will only last a couple of weeks.

[cdh]

Pat, you sound like you are being defensive when you need not be. I have always said I want this, I hope it happens, etc. I brought up some problems that may well be encountered in such an undertaking in NY, NJ, as well as the unforeseen glitches that always come up in projects this large and unique (change order, my two favorite words as a contractor ), but never called any of them deal killers. As for the locals, the majority already embrace it, poll from 8/2011:

some local opinions

Hope I just misread your sentiments, but I wanted to clear this up. I love NY, grew up 20 minutes from mid-town, lived there for 6 years, a staunch defender always, just being realistic about it, that's all. Cheers mate

[dalyduo]

Thanks Doug... No I'm excited about this and pretty certain we're both on the same side here. I'm pleasantly shocked at how far ahead they are with this plan as it was brilliant to get it so worked out before going public with it. Tells me they see the big picture, have done their homework and know how to get it done. The NYC cynic in me keeps looking for the loopholes or possible problem that will trip it up but so far, there aren't any steaming piles to worry about or avoid. I want to go over and buy an apartment overlooking the course right now!

Originally Posted by cdh

Pat, you sound like you are being defensive when you need not be. I have always said I want this, I hope it happens, etc. I brought up some problems that may well be encountered in such an undertaking in NY, NJ, as well as the unforeseen glitches that always come up in projects this large and unique (change order, my two favorite words as a contractor ), but never called any of them deal killers. As for the locals, the majority already embrace it, poll from 8/2011:

some local opinions

Hope I just misread your sentiments, but I wanted to clear this up. I love NY, grew up 20 minutes from mid-town, lived there for 6 years, a staunch defender always, just being realistic about it, that's all. Cheers mate

[Gerardo]

I met Leo by phone years ago thanks to a referral by another friend. Leo told me then he was trying to spend a little less money on racing. Right! I think he sensed I was a driver looking for a sponsor. At least this race will make business sense. If its profitable, it should last a good while.

Count me as excited!

[oldredracer]

Originally Posted by cdh

Where is Trio's pic ORR? Good points about noise/residents/hospitals disruption, etc. There is so much to be done to make these streets race-worthy it will be very interesting to watch it play out. Skirmishes expected, hopefully the locals will see benefits. Agree, NJ corruption is a benchmark topped only by Chicago, and the local union bosses will want to have some chats with Bernie I suspect.

My cuz lives in Hoboken, might be a good time to pay a visit

Trio, not sure about the rooftop viewing from UWS, how is your line of site to Weehawken? Wonder why they didn't call it the Weehawken GP?

Just saw the question. Trio's pic shows the racing line running north on Blvd. East and turning east at 60th Street, going down to the river.
The section from 60th street south to 49th Street is a fairly wide boulevard (wide enough for the occasional very late at night drag race please don't tell my Dad) lined with houses and apartment buildiings on the west and a couple of hundred foot drop down the Palisades to the river on the east. There are other parallel streets for north south traffic but it'll be fascinating to see how they allow all the residents from 49th to 60th to get to work/shop and have medical emergencies between Thursday and Sunday.

[cdh]

Originally Posted by oldredracer

Just saw the question. Trio's pic shows the racing line running north on Blvd. East and turning east at 60th Street, going down to the river.

Strike Two!

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by cdh

Agree, NJ corruption is a benchmark topped only by Chicago, and the local union bosses will want to have some chats with Bernie I suspect.

Well they better bring flowers and candy. Don't mess with Bernie. His war-chest dwarfs that of any local wise-guy, and he knows his way around a shake-down. He's not the biggest dog in the biggest pond for no reason. Anyone who's gone up against him has either taken their medicine or disappeared softly into the night (Max?... Max???) And how did he come up with his original ante, I wonder?

"Why would I rob a train with only two and a half million pounds on it?" --Upon being asked if he was involved in the Great Train Robbery of 1963

[cdh]

True, Bernie is an uber big dog, but never underestimate the tough guys on their home toif.
Sid, mind, was from Joisey I'm very sad Sid will miss this, he'd be all over it.

I was wondering who Anthony DeFino was...

From 1998 - The Bad Old Days (hope link works for all, may have a subscription block, let me know, will copy)

Big Tony...he was very well liked in his day. "Mr. DeFino, who after 24 years in office decided not to run for re-election in 1995, died in December 1996, three weeks after suffering a heart attack. A lifelong resident of West New York, Mr. DeFino was a mammoth-sized man, who often salted his public remarks with phrases in Italian that reflected the heritage he shared with so many of the immigrants that populated the town throughout its early history."

No doubt he would also have embraced the GP



“He was the biggest kid on the block,” said Vega, “and as soon as he walked in, everybody knew they were going to have a good time.” He added that DeFino is also remembered as a great mayor.

In addition to taking care of the town’s senior citizens, said Vega, DeFino also made sure the kids of West New York had the chance to learn in school and to enjoy recreation. “He was loved by the seniors and every kid in town, and through the kids, the parents,” said Vega.

New Jersey State League of Municipalities Elected Officials Hall of Fame


***

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by cdh

True, Bernie is an uber big dog, but never underestimate the tough guys on their home toif.
Sid, mind, was from Joisey I'm very sad Sid will miss this, he'd be all over it.

I'm with you there. It is REALLY sad he is missing this. If you thought Sid was animated about the mechanics, imagine how he'd be about this!!

Great story about DeFino... it would take a guy like that to run the place and still get good things done for the community. Sounds like a guy who knew how to work both worlds.

This New Jersey vs Texas thing is going to make for great drama and soundbites over the next couple of years, and while I love Sy's take on it for pure entertainment value, it seems to me that each GP will serve a different audience. Austin was always going to benefit from its proximity to Mexico/Central America, I'm sure that's built into the business model. My biggest worry for BOTH is financial sustainability given Bernies gargantuan event fees and monopolization of concession revenues and and the live video feed--he makes it very hard for anyone other than FOM to get a crack at any revenue. That was the biggest complaint in India, that there was no way for promoters to make any money outside of ticket sales, and while that has worked up till now through many govts subsidizing the events, will it work in a country struggling with recession and municipal indebtedness for the forseeable future where govt subsidies are hugely controversial?

[Slowhands]

p.s. Sid v. Bernie...now THAT would've been sumthin' to see.

[cdh]

From the "ya can't make this stuff up dept."

"Trenton (October 4, 2011) – New Jersey’s leading small business organization today announced
its endorsement of Fernando Alonso and Richard Goldberg in the critical 38th District Assembly contest."

Photoshop time me thinks

[oldredracer]

Originally Posted by cdh

From the "ya can't make this stuff up dept."

"Trenton (October 4, 2011) – New Jersey’s leading small business organization today announced
its endorsement of Fernando Alonso and Richard Goldberg in the critical 38th District Assembly contest."

Photoshop time me thinks

Wow. I figured he had a few good years left before he retired and
started a new career!!!

[Slowhands]

Who knew he was such a friend of small business? Who knew?

[Moxie]

Ten (More) Reasons that F1 in New Jersey Will Be, Um, Special

10. Fuel will be less expensive than at other F1 races, but the teams will not be allowed to pump it for themselves.

9. The official title of the race will be “Bernielicious.”

8. The checkered flag will be waved by Snooki … unfortunately, not at the actual race winner.

7. Lewis Hamilton will receive a five-place grid penalty for driving too fast through the EZ-Pass lane.

6. The warm-up lap will be led by a Camaro IROC-Z.

5. Every garage on pit road will have its own Dunkin Donuts.

4. For this race only, each team will be required to have a local sponsorship. As we go to press, the following affiliations have been announced: Latin Kings/Hispania, Crips/McLaren, Warlocks/Mercedes, and Almighty Vice Lord Nation/Virgin.

3. Former Governor Jim McGreevey, invited as an honored guest, will be ejected from the Mercedes paddock after misunderstanding the term “blown diffuser” and propositioning Nico Rosberg.

2. In addition to DRS and KERS, all teams will install LoJack.

1. At some point during construction of the circuit, they will find Jimmy Hoffa.

[WatertownNewbie]

Originally Posted by Moxie

Ten (More) Reasons that F1 in New Jersey Will Be, Um, Special

And any car abandoned on the circuit will be stripped before the driver gets back to his pit garage.