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Old 07-26-2009
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ING Renault Penalized

Bad news comes in threes? The loss of RF wheel today from Fernando's car pretty incredible given tragic problems with flying objects lately...good thing this wheel didn't do any damage....except to Flavio's ego and a possible podium for Fernando.

ING Renault banned from Valencia

With the, what, 628 pit crew members working on an F1 pit stop this is inexcusable, they deserve the penalty. Most likely wont be Valencia though, appeals, etc and summer vacation time. Actually glad about that for Fernando's sake, he is blameless here, a shame if he couldn't race in Espana.
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Old 07-27-2009
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Re: ING Renault Penalized

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Bad news comes in threes? The loss of RF wheel today from Fernando's car pretty incredible given tragic problems with flying objects lately...good thing this wheel didn't do any damage....except to Flavio's ego and a possible podium for Fernando.

ING Renault banned from Valencia

With the, what, 628 pit crew members working on an F1 pit stop this is inexcusable, they deserve the penalty. Most likely wont be Valencia though, appeals, etc and summer vacation time. Actually glad about that for Fernando's sake, he is blameless here, a shame if he couldn't race in Espana.
I thought I read one account last night (BBC or Reuters?) that implied that the penalty was so severe because some of the ING/Ren crew suspected that the wheel might be loose, but they elected to leave him on track because they did not want to loose track position.
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Old 07-27-2009
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Re: ING Renault Penalized

The Speed Report showed video of the pit man fumbling with it before the car pulled out. It was obvious that they didn't get it right. If they knew and didn't warn him that's criminal. Lucky it came off early or we'd have had another potential disaster.
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Old 07-27-2009
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Re: ING Renault Penalized

I have mixed feelings about this one.. overall I suppose they do deserve the penalty.... It is a shame for it to be during Alonso's home race though... BUT.. If Renault earned a penalty I also believe that Brawn deserves an even bigger one for causing the incident that actually resulted in injury.. They're just as responsible to make sure "bits" don't fall off their car and injure someone as Renault should be.
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Old 07-27-2009
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Re: ING Renault Penalized

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I have mixed feelings about this one.. overall I suppose they do deserve the penalty.... It is a shame for it to be during Alonso's home race though... BUT.. If Renault earned a penalty I also believe that Brawn deserves an even bigger one for causing the incident that actually resulted in injury.. They're just as responsible to make sure "bits" don't fall off their car and injure someone as Renault should be.
Nando will prob race at Valencia due to FIA hearing process taking a long time...hope so for his sake. Good point about Brawn, different situation, but worth questioning also. That spring weighed almost 2 pounds, Massa was soooooo lucky.
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Old 07-27-2009
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Re: ING Renault Penalized

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...Massa was soooooo lucky.
Might be premature to say that just yet. This could very easily be career ending.
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Old 07-27-2009
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Re: ING Renault Penalized

Yes.. it is a good thing that with the appeal process at least it looks like Alonso will be able to run in his home race.. and you're also right Doug that they are somewhat different situations, but bottom line is everyone has the responsibility to put safe cars on the track that will not spill parts or debris off that could harm someone. Obviously Renault didn't WANT a wheel to fall of their car, even if they were rushed and it could have been avoided, just as Brawn didn't want a spring falling off their car. Most likely Brawn too probally could have been a lil more thorough and have spotted the issue before it DID hurt someone, unlike the Renault incident that COULD have hurt someone. IMHO the penalty is more of a case of the FIA trying to LOOK proactive with all that has happened recently..

In the good news, seems as Massa is showing good signs..

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/artic...f-improvement/
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Old 07-27-2009
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Re: ING Renault Penalized

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Might be premature to say that just yet. This could very easily be career ending.
that is very possible, unlucky it happened, lucky it wasn't life ending, inches either way. The announcement that they are
expecting their first child adds an interesting dimension to this.

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In the good news, seems as Massa is showing good signs..
speedy recovery Felipe
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Old 07-27-2009
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Re: ING Renault Penalized

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In the good news, seems as Massa is showing good signs.
I would say they are looking a "normal life" recovery, not a return to the pinnacle of motorsport. It's a very long road back from this kind of brain injury. If he recovers enough to drive at the level I do he'd never win a Skippy race.

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The Speed Report showed video of the pit man fumbling with it before the car pulled out. It was obvious that they didn't get it right. If they knew and didn't warn him that's criminal. Lucky it came off early or we'd have had another potential disaster.
I agree. It's very serious if they knew there was likely a problem then did nothing. The center wheel lock (forged aluminum or titanium in F1?) alone is not something you want laying on the track, much less the wheel and tire. Parts can, and will continue to, fall off race cars. Things break. But to send car out, or not call it in, when you suspect a loose wheel is far outside the boundaries of responsible behaviour. There needs to be a clear signal that this is not acceptable behavior.
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Old 07-27-2009
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Re: ING Renault Penalized

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I would say they are looking a "normal life" recovery, not a return to the pinnacle of motorsport. It's a very long road back from this kind of brain injury. If he recovers enough to drive at the level I do he'd never win a Skippy race.

I agree. It's very serious if they knew there was likely a problem then did nothing. The center wheel lock (forged aluminum or titanium in F1?) alone is not something you want laying on the track, much less the wheel and tire. Parts can, and will continue to, fall off race cars. Things break. But to send car out, or not call it in, when you suspect a loose wheel is far outside the boundaries of responsible behaviour. There needs to be a clear signal that this is not acceptable behavior.
Understood... but a spring does not just fall out of an F1 car. SOMETHING is up with that. I'm willing to bet that if someone had thouroughly inspected the whole Brawn car before it left for the track that something could have been seen amiss. Maybe it was a case of some kind of experimentation or it was someone NOT doing their job.. Just like with the ING team. Someone not doing their job. Wasn't the Renault only out for one lap??.. maybe they were going to call it in... My point of view is though if you're going to penalize someone from a safety standpoint about how something COULD have happened from their negligence, then the other team that ACTUALLY did cause a racing catastrophe should be penalized also. Just because the Brawn incident is much different in how or why it happened doesn't mean that they shouldn't be held responsible for it. Even if something did break they should have done a better inspection to spot a potentionally failing component. Just like the ING team should have done a better job to make sure the tire was secured.. I'm sure the team or Aonso didn't want to be out on a wheel falling off. If they are going to react like this to mistakes made by teams under a banner of safety it sure will be a slippery slope. You can't pick and choose who or when to penalize. it should be clear cut, did it happen or not.. Then penalize away...

BTW.. keeps getting more interesting by the minute..

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/artic...a-at-valencia/
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Old 07-27-2009
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Re: ING Renault Penalized

The Brawn role in this catastrophic incident is complex. From what I have read of Barrichello's interviews, the spring didn't "fall off," (as in poorly mounted), the spring/damper unit BROKE. That is just racing. But what makes it more complicated is that apparently they knew that there was a problem from the beginning of qualifying and they were trying to drive around it in order to do a time. Barrichello says that the car was not handling well, and it was getting worse, until finally the rear collapsed and he lost all his ride height at that corner. Now I understand that it's qualis and not practice, and this is F1 where there is so much pressure to get a good result, but IMO, if he was having such a significant problem, then even though it is a judgment call, the judgment should be to get off the track and figure out what it is. Obviously something significant has changed, and you are getting significant warning signals from the data as well as your own feel of the car. Only in the race proper do I believe there is any justification to driving around with a problem with your car in an attempt to finish the race, and even then if the safety of other drivers is at stake, maybe it's NOT justified. Which is why the meatball flag exists. In my two personal experiences with this in a Skippy car, I luckily had the good sense to head immediately for the pits when the handling of my car started to get squirrelly during a session. In both cases we found a cracked A-arm which would have completely separated within another lap or two, potentially sending me hooking into a wall. And who knows if I would have collected another driver in the process. Would I have made the same decision in qualifying-- yes. In a race? -- I hope I would have the good judgment to do the right thing.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/...rday-s-events/

The important section:

I lost the whole central damper of the car," Barrichello explained. "It felt a bit strange - the car was moving a bit, vertically, and we suspected that it was starting to go since the beginning of qualifying.

Massa did not attempt to turn after being hit by the metal part
"Eventually, it went completely on that lap because I had had a lap full of traffic which I had to abort and on that next lap, as soon as I braked for Turn 1, it was very, very bad. I still did an okay time through Sector 1 but when I went into Turn 3 I felt the rear collapse; I had no control over the rear suspension, it was like it was solid. It was then that I radioed and said I was coming in - it felt like I lost a big chunk of ride height because the car was touching the ground and on the TV, from the videos, it looks like that was what went flying into Felipe's head - the whole thing just went bang.








What is really eerie is that this happened in 2003, at the same event: (from F1 website) http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2003/8/766.html

Ferrari explain Barrichello suspension failure


Unusual impacts with the kerbs were the most likely cause of Rubens Barrichello's suspension failure in last Sunday's Hungarian Grand Prix, according to the Ferrari team.

The left-rear suspension on Barrichello's F2003-GA dramatically collapsed less than a third of the way into the Hungaroring race as the Brazilian braked heavily for Turn One.

With Barrichello having made no apparent contact with other cars prior to the incident, the cause of the failure was initially a mystery. However, after careful analysis of the available data and after studying video footage, Ferrari say they have ascertained the most likely explanation.

"When he found himself very close to the car which preceded him, Barrichello twice hit the kerbs at an unusual angle of impact at the chicane between Turns 6 and 7," reported the team.

"The impacts put excessive stress on the leading arm of the upper wishbone of the left rear suspension. This part then broke under heavy braking on the main straight at the start of lap 20."

Barrichello was running fifth at the time of the accident, three places above the final race position of team mate Michael Schumacher.
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Old 07-27-2009
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Re: ING Renault Penalized

Wow!! thanks for the info.. Even more reason Brawn should also be penalized, even more severely than Renault.. And I am actually quite a fan of Brawn and their seemigly "Cinderella story" this season. bottom line, if there is a inclination that safety of a car is suspect for the safety of all it should be pulled off track and taken care of immediately. Or... if we just want to race.. race then with no penalties.. Kinda dicey trying to play the middle road.. I penalize YOU, but not YOU...maybe YOU..
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Old 07-28-2009
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Re: ING Renault Penalized

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Originally Posted by Slowhands View Post
In my two personal experiences with this in a Skippy car, I luckily had the good sense to head immediately for the pits when the handling of my car started to get squirrelly during a session. In both cases we found a cracked A-arm which would have completely separated within another lap or two, potentially sending me hooking into a wall. And who knows if I would have collected another driver in the process. Would I have made the same decision in qualifying-- yes. In a race? -- I hope I would have the good judgment to do the right thing.
Harsha, great question. I think the key here is that we all have to know what we should and want to do before it happens. Calm heads do not always prevail in race conditions. Having a plan ahead of time is essential for the race and for when something does not feel right.
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Old 08-17-2009
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Re: ING Renault Penalized

.. game on....

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/artic...an-overturned/
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Old 08-17-2009
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Re: ING Renault Penalized

Now Schumi's motorcycle injury looms even larger. Too bad he can't make it. What a race it might have been: Schumi v Alonso v Kimi v Lewis, 4 champs, all in compeititve cars.
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