How to observe a waving yellow

[Andrew]

Well it happened again.
Worked hard to gain a position and put some distance between us and came up on a waving yellow at turn five RA.
You can clearly see the safety team truck right at the edge of the track at the corner exit! I slow to a prudent speed, (not a crawl, but reasonable to insure control of the car for their sake,) only to find the driver behind me drive at racing speed, close the gap and make a run at me going up the hill.
Of course, carrying quite a few exit speed MPHs, he regains the position and motors away. With only two laps remaining, I can hardly catch up and get the spot back, only to lose it again going up the hill after 14 to the checker. He was close enough to get my draft and nipped me at the start/finish line. You may say that's racing and I say BS! I'm not complaining about the driver, I know and like the guy; it's just that we as drivers need to come to some standards and code to adhere to involving what a prudent speed reduction should be.
Maybe it would be asking everyone to go one gear lowerthan they had been using. Or maybe disallowing passing until after exiting the following corning. Or how about having the observers assess atime penalty(5 seconds?) if in their opinion, the speed was imprudent.
I know this is all subjective except for not passing until after the next corner.
We probably all fell victim to this and I think it needs to be discussed, primarily because of PEOPLE being out from behind the safety barriers putting themselves in harms way to service us. We owe them a lot more respect.
Open for discussion.

[J Goring]

usually what they do in formula one is you can not pass from the yellow flag situation till the apex of the next corner (where a green flag is then being displayed. as for gaining and losing distance, it is your own choice as to whether it is important to risk lives and go all out through a yellow flag scenario, or to take it easy through there. Me personally, i slow to only like 8/10 pace for a yellow, for the exact same reason that you are talking about where people gain ground on you...its all about using judgement and common sense, and sometimes others dont use common sense.

[WatertownNewbie]

Last weekend, I happened to be sitting in the Turn 5 grandstand at RA with an instructor. There was a waving yellow, and the two cars approaching down the hill were the leader and second place, with a gap of perhaps two or three cars lengths. Both cars slowed equally, maintained roughly the same gap, and then took off up the hill toward Turn 6. The instructor watched all of this rather quietly. I asked about what had occurred, and he was searching for the right word, when I said that both drivers were "respectful" of the yellow flag. He agreed and clearly was also thinking something else, and I continued "But they're still in a race", meaning that they are both aiming to be in the lead, and he agreed with that too.

The instructor was pleased that the two drivers had behaved on the side of caution, but he also indicated that what we saw was not what would occur most often. Instead, any driver slowing for a yellow can probably aniticpate that whoever is behind will likely seek to close the gap and, in a corner, also attempt to gain an edge on the way out of the turn.

So ... in this case, the prevalent scenario would have been exactly what happened to you, Andrew, i.e., you slow and the driver behind you gets a run up the hill toward Turn 6.

On the practice day, I finally had the presence of mind to raise my hand in the air when approaching a waving yellow (I always slow, but until now had not raised my hand). How many do that?

Lastly, I agree with Andrew that the corner workers and tow truck personnel deserve some consideration. If the heat of competition produced a second wreck in a location where the first wreck was being handled and anyone was injured, that would be really tragic.

[MJAmok]

It doesn't sound like the second driver wasn't in safe control. You didn't mention 'excessive speed', 'sliding', 'tire noise', etc. Therefore, I'd find it hard to fault him (or her).

If, on the other hand, you suggested that their speed was unsafe (rather than simply being higher than yours), I'd say they should be publically stoned. Putting others at risk for the sake of an amateur race is, well, amateur.

[cdh]

Originally Posted by MJAmok

It doesn't sound like the second driver wasn't in safe control. You didn't mention 'excessive speed', 'sliding', 'tire noise', etc. Therefore, I'd find it hard to fault him (or her).

If, on the other hand, you suggested that their speed was unsafe (rather than simply being higher than yours), I'd say they should be publically stoned. Putting others at risk for the sake of an amateur race is, well, amateur.

what he said....

.

[Redneck]

Originally Posted by MJAmok
"...If, on the other hand, you suggested that their speed was unsafe (rather than simply being higher than yours), I'd say they should be publically stoned. Putting others at risk for the sake of an amateur race is, well, amateur."

Agreed!!!!
Waving Yellow is to indicate a danger on or close to the racing surface. Driver must be prepared to take evasive action including coming to a full stop.
There is usually not a red flag on the corner station and even if there is..the Red Flag is only displayed by a call from Race Control. Therefore the flag that you get when all hell breaks loose is Waving Yellow. Think of the Formula Mazda at Montreal, all the warning that you are going to get is a waving yellow and the track is 80% blocked.

Standing yellow is to indicate a danger near the track. Driver must slow to a speed that ensures he/she does not loose control of their car and hit something off the track.

The speeds, as pointed out already, are subjective and it is the instructors call. The Yellow can allow someone to gain ground on you, much the same as a Pace Car situation, but at least with a local yellow it is usually only a few cars.

I have advocated the use of "no passing until the green flag is displayed at the next corner"...but I do see problems with that approach (a) Do you go back to racing when you see the green? Or as you pass the green flag? (b) With limited Flagging people, the distance from Flag stations could be very long (think of Sebring Turn 16 to Turn 17).

As the song goes "...sometimes you are the bug and sometimes you are the windshield" I hope everyone is always the windshield.

[AZRCD]

Originally Posted by J Goring

usually what they do in formula one is you can not pass from the yellow flag situation till the apex of the next corner (where a green flag is then being displayed. as for gaining and losing distance, it is your own choice as to whether it is important to risk lives and go all out through a yellow flag scenario, or to take it easy through there.

Not quite. Despite what it looks like, Charlie Whiting monitors drivers speeds on yellow laps and on the green laps before. They must have a noticeable and in his judgment appropriately, for the situation, slower lap time. Let’s hear it for another precisely worded, with no room for interpretation rule from the FIA.

[PT Cruiser]

As former Southern/Mid-western Series pit lane coordinator Barry Waddell used to say "There is no substitute for good judgement."

During practice and qualifying, I always put a hand up when coming up to a waving yellow, and drop down to 6/10ths at max. In practice there is no point taking a risk, and in qualifying you are going to lose a few tenths no matter what, which means your hot lap is as good as shot anyway.

During a race, waving yellows are a trickier proposition. You absolutely HAVE to take enough speed off so that you can avoid whatever is on the track in front of you, without losing control because you TTO'd at the last minute. But at the same time, if you take too much speed off, you can lose out big time to you competitors. IF I can see what is going on ahead, and can tell that the racing line is unobstructed, I will typically drop down to about 8/10ths, which I figure is a fair compromise between safety and competitiveness. If I can't see what is ahead, then I take a lot more speed off, until I've got a good read on the situation.

In some ways, this situation is sort of self-regulating. Early in my racing career, before I figured out what was going down, I used to lose 10 or 20 car lenghts each time I passed a yellow flag in a race. Eventually, I learned how to carry enough speed through the corner so that the time loss or gain viz a viz my competitors was relatively minor, while still feeling that I had taken enough speed off so that I wasn't putting any of the corner workers in danger. On the flip side, anyone who shows an inability to judge this properly is assuredly going to get a MAJOR dressing down from the instructors, and will almost assuredly get bounced out of the series in short order should they show a habitual inability to exercise good judgement around yellow flags.

In my 15 years at Skip, I really haven't seen this to be much of an issue. Most drivers, like Michael, realize that these are amateur races, and that putting corner workers at risk makes no sense given that nothing serious is at stake.