Skippy Prototype Car ('05-'07): Russell new cars?

[bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Slowhands

all the races ARE in the Formula Russell. It's their R/T 2000. I hate to say this, but I googled them this week. Is anyone at Skippy watching this space?

Heard that when the current Skippy COO arrived at Lakeville the message went out to employees not to particpate on the TJR site, doesn't apply to instructors since they are sub-contractors.

[LimeRockRacer]

I don't think there are any more loyal customers of skippy than those that frequent this site. I assume it would be important for them to hear/see what their most loyal customers are thinking...good and bad as respects the business.

We do love the series and our great staff members that dedicate themselves to us but let's not forget we are paying customers and as such we all have budgets. As the pain of paying for the product becomes larger more of us will look for other alternatives.

Unfortunately it is reality that many of the regional guys/gals are supporting the costs of the scholarships and national and other more newsworthy programs. While every person and business is experiencing increased costs each year, the amount of increase at SBRS over the past few years is outpacing what much of us have in our discretionary budgets.

With the business up for sale all that seems to matter at times is making the P&L and Balance sheet look better in the short run.

With the average stay of a racer in the regional at about 3 years would it not make sense to try and retain existing racers longer and still fill the pipeline with newbies at the current or better rate? Seems like there would be more revenue resource to tap into for the business...

[donv]

Originally Posted by LimeRockRacer

I don't think there are any more loyal customers of skippy than those that frequent this site. I assume it would be important for them to hear/see what their most loyal customers are thinking...good and bad as respects the business.

Unfortunately it is reality that many of the regional guys/gals are supporting the costs of the scholarships and national and other more newsworthy programs.

.

If it was mine i would be all over this "free marketing survey" daily. Hate to go down this path but to most of us it is obvious the powers that be are not what i would call great entrepreneurs. That is what it takes to make a business like this exciting and profitable enough to make the effort.

When in survival mode the most oft made mistake is to raise prices to solve the problem. It never ever works, what does work is cutting expenses, specifically salaries of managers and others not DIRECTLY involved in providing the product. Managers if any good can assume additional responsibilities. Anyway I will stop now because this road leads no where, i quickly had forgotten the phrases "in denial"...."they don't get the joke" and "it can't be our fault"

On a final note...Chris, i think you hit on something i had missed, the huge negative $$$ effect of the National and scholarship programs especially in light of the fact there is a glut of such programs around now. Does it really bring in any net $$$ directly or indirectly, I'm not sure but many of the other programs are strictly a part of marketing budgets of large corporations. Assuming in the SBRS case that it drives prices higher for unrelated products then it is another of a long line of ill-concivied...poorly implemented ideas at least from a business point of view.

My focus would be on keeping and rewarding frequent racers and long term customers, it just seems to be a no brainer

They just don't get the joke do they

[Slowhands]

Don, a wonderfully succinct assessment of the situation. When even I, one of the least business-savvy people here, can see the classic scenarios developing and playing out and the classic mistakes being made... welll, I guess B-school case studies have to come from somewhere. And boy, is this one in spades. The problem is that it affects our quality of life since this is something we are very fond of and gives us a wonderful environment to connect and hang out together. When you have something that's really good, it's painful to watch someone else destroy it unnecessarily and in a PREDICTABLE way. Cutting out the Saturday shindig at Tremblant-- a small thing -- but SO predictable it's laughable -- WHO do they think they are kidding? (I mean, besides themselves) Do they think we are that dumb, that we don't pick up on these things? Signs and symptoms. Signs and symptoms.

I have resigned myself to the fact that this case study is going to play out as natural law dictates and I will have a front row seat. I don't think sufficient humility exists at the top to clearly see the problems and solve them correctly. And that will continue until natural arbitrage brings the asking price in line with the REAL, PRESENT value of the company-- not the potential, not the historical, not the perceived value, not the value of the goodwill associated with it (ie Mazda), not the number of stars in professional racing with Skip Barber bloodlines, but the value of how it is being run, here, today. Then it will really get interesting.

Get the joke? First you have to take your fingers out of your ears...

[WatertownNewbie]

Maybe Skip could take the company over, rebuild the value, sell it again, and then wait for the cycle to repeat. All he needs is some seed money. Anyone want to join the Club?

[Jisu Kim]

I may be completely off-base here since I'm shooting from the hip without any hard knowledge, but I'd guess that neither the regional nor national race series are profitable without support from Mazda and Michelin. I'd also guess the standalone profitable parts of the business are the non-racing schools and corporate events. If this is true, you need the national and regional series to attract Mazda (integrating well with their ladder system) and Michelin. Not knowing their typical new customer costs versus customer retention costs, it's difficult to know whether they are behaving rationally with respect to their pricing policies. Racing is expensive. Arrive and drive racing is even more expensive. A rolling road show running at different tracks with crash damage insurance is yet again even more expensive. Even at the scale of Skippy operations, I'm not sure that Skippy pricing is unreasonable.

[wbs]

You're absolutely right Jisu, and that is exactly what is disastrous in post- Skip Barber management: their turning off of sponsors.

[bobblehead]

Great quote Slowhands: "I don't think sufficient humility exists at the top to clearly see the problems and solve them correctly." Sufficient, try void-of. I wonder what Robert Davis, SVP @ Mazda, would say if he knew how Skippy is doing these days, surely he knows they are how looking for a buyer.

[jeffrey Pietz]

Ok,
Where did I miss this tid bit about the company being for sale?
Does anyone relly know anything about how the company is really doing?

[dlippert]

Ironic how those who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a shotgun from ten feet away, never seem to miss when shooting themselves in the foot

[donv]

The pricing may not be unreasonable yet but the size and frequency of increases if they continue will put them there quickly.

I was around since 88 and my understanding was that the corporate programs were the profit centers. However the racing programs created the buzz and excitement which ultimately drove manufacturer's and people to the corporate stuff. Skippy always knew this and was willing to run the racing at break even or a small loss, he knew it could never be a real profit center.

The new people having no understanding of this business, expect each segment to produce a profit. This limiting belief in itself creates the environment we see around the race series. The attitude is one of total negativity, failure, losses, survival, scarcity, hopelessness not what I would call a place for business to thrive. As customers we see the best side of Skippy, thank god, but lurking just beyond is the fear that the emperor has no clothes.

I was told that a few years ago or longer there were major contract cancellations for corporate programs to the tune of 60%-70% of the existing business. It was alluded to that the debacle was brought about by stubbornness, ineptitude and denail on the side of the Skippy principals over a very small matter. The loss of these programs has never been replaced nor was there ever a plan put in to place to rejuvenate it. They just walked away from the most profitable part of the business, arguably the only one...never getting the joke.

Since then the racing programs have slowly been doomed because they will never be able to make enough on their own to satisfy these owners. Skippy loved racing and found a way to make $$ other ways to keep it alive...to these guys that dynamic is so far out of their comfort zone and knowledge it will never happen.

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by Jisu Kim

I may be completely off-base here since I'm shooting from the hip without any hard knowledge, but I'd guess that neither the regional nor national race series are profitable without support from Mazda and Michelin. I'd also guess the standalone profitable parts of the business are the non-racing schools and corporate events. If this is true, you need the national and regional series to attract Mazda (integrating well with their ladder system) and Michelin. Not knowing their typical new customer costs versus customer retention costs, it's difficult to know whether they are behaving rationally with respect to their pricing policies. Racing is expensive. Arrive and drive racing is even more expensive. A rolling road show running at different tracks with crash damage insurance is yet again even more expensive. Even at the scale of Skippy operations, I'm not sure that Skippy pricing is unreasonable.

I don't disagree with any of the above. Especially at present. And it is considerate of you to look at the burden that those who run Skippy bear. But unfortunately, the alternative market for my racing dollars "doesn't weep for Santiago." So, if Skip is going to compete, then their survival depends on their ability to make the racing series at least break even, and earn their profit from the other "profitable" parts you mention. Skippy needs the race series, whether or not it is profitable. That is what gives them the credibility to run everything else -- it is their heritage, the whole reason they exist in the first place-- they are the coaches of champions. Lose the race series, and they become just like every other corporate team-building hack out there.

So they have to get CREATIVE. They have no other choice. Raising prices beyond a certain point has no moral consequence, it has a raw economic consequence modeled by unfeeling quantitative economic theory. If they need more sponsors, then dammit-- go get 'em! They're out there. Corporations are pouring a godawful amount of money into racing. The Mazda deal, while important for other reasons, is not as important as they would like it to be, or perhaps even as they THINK it is. It does little for the bottom line. Mazda's not giving them cash. They're getting cars, but for a new, unproven race school/series. (Miatas are popular because they're relatively inexpensive to OWN and race. They are an extremely successful tool in a DIFFERENT model of racing. Have they considered that they may be barking up the wrong tree with that? Will it work?) They may eventually get engines for the Skippymobile, but they've always had engines. There's no new cash flow there. They get tires. Same thing, no new cash flow. Meanwhile their proven series with loyal customers is slowly withering-- customers who would return year after year if they weren't one by one pissed off by the way they are treated, despite what other series they're running (yes, I believe people would return regularly for the benefits of keeping skills sharp in the Skippy car (sort of like karts for us) and for the camaraderie, which Skippy has over every pro series in spades. But people leaving means camaraderie leaving). You can find reasons (I call them excuses) such as "the average Skippy customer progresses through the Skippy steps over 3 years and then moves on, it's the natural order of things, blahblah," well don't just write them off-- dammit, do something to DISRUPT the "natural order of things," create a product and a CORPORATE ATTITUDE they want to come back for, and for God's sake MARKET IT TO THEM! Isn't that what business is all about, what life is all about? The "natural order of things" is entropy, but I'm going to do my damnedest on a daily basis to keep from being reduced to a molecular cloud of Mahajanapadas dust (hence the yoga). Being able to get to know the drivers who run session after session, weekend after weekend has opened my eyes -- Skippy is FULL of foolishly passionate ENTHUSIASTS. If you give them a product they want to come back for, they WILL come back. But not if you take them for granted. You've GOT to do the work.

And if you raise the price, especially significantly, don't sneak it in without saying anything! So that I have to unearth it in a line from an email. That sends ALL the wrong messages. Preview it. Tell me well ahead of time it's coming. Communicate. Get on the same page as me and get emotional buy-in. Discuss the circumstances that make it necessary. Win me over. Get me to believe that you are doing this reluctantly and that you CARE that I have to part with more of my HARD-EARNED cash. And that you are working as hard as you can to find every other way possible to keep the price down.

I just don't see the basic, fundamental business things getting done when it comes to me, the customer. And if they're neglecting little ol' me, every real businessman since Genghis Khan knows they're neglecting LOTS of other stuff. And that is my opinion, in its entirety. I PROMISE that's ALL I'm going to ever say about it again (please hold down the wild applause), because I've got all kinds of other fun stuff to do. Like get up early, cut my grass, and then drive to mid-ohio. Yeah, they've got me for the time being. But I'm watching. I'm watching.

PS: I was writing this while Don was writing his post-- funny how 2 different guys, one who's known Skippy since the late 80's, and me who's only been around a year and a half, said almost the same exact thing in different words. OK, Don said it much more elegantly and concisely than I did-- I accept that. I've got Pat's disease ,and after I finished writing I just didn't have the energy to go back and edit. Good post, Don.

[donv]

Harsha said

"OK, Don said it much more elegantly and concisely than I did"
===================
I doubt that... and you definitely said it with more passion

this thread is getting me depressed...the reality of these guys killing skippy world for good is something i haven't cared to think about, but i guess it's possible.

OTOH I am always optimistic that something good will happen, unfortunately it may get worse before it changes. I think the current folks in control may need to throw in the towel before meaningful change happens.

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by donv

this thread is getting me depressed...the reality of these guys killing skippy world for good is something i haven't cared to think about, but i guess it's possible.
OTOH I am always optimistic that something good will happen, unfortunately it may get worse before it changes. I think the current folks in control may need to throw in the towel before meaningful change happens.

don't get depressed, Don-- don't worry about the future, this moment itself is pretty good. Enjoy it! The future will unfold as it will and, as you suggest, all kinds of things can happen. Skippy will not be "killed for good"-- Skip created a brand with legs-- worst case, the current incarnation may cease to exist-- but that may in fact be a good thing. Another good thing is that a lot of people care about this.

We got racing to do, buddy! You're in a new world now-- back at the sharp end after what, 18 or so years? How many people get to say that? See you at the track!

[sydude]

Originally Posted by Slowhands

Skippy will not be "killed for good"-- Skip created a brand with legs-- worst case, the current incarnation may cease to exist-- but that may in fact be a good thing. Another good thing is that a lot of people care about this.

Absolutely. Skippy's brand value will survive this current management. But a revolution every now and then is a good thing, so let's have one soon. Q, Al, hurry up.

[donv]

Originally Posted by Slowhands

We got racing to do, buddy! You're in a new world now-- back at the sharp end after what, 18 or so years? How many people get to say that? See you at the track!

OK, depression gone, I am checking in on-line as we speak for my trip to Ohio.

Yes been is this game since 1988 a product of Dorsey and Wally. 88 to 94 and now late 2005 until??? We had the spread type groups then with 4-5 potential winners in each group so I've been there....of course that was then and now is what's important

See all the Mid-O's Thursday

[Quentin]

I've done Russell, and I've done Skip. Russell is just a drive up the road from me and 9 times out of 10 I have to fly to the Skip races, which costs me another day.
Yet, I still race Skip every chance I get. To me Skip is much more professional and tons more fun. There are lots of reasons why, lots, but maybe anyone wondering why should try Russell. Its good. But, it's not one track in one place for the past few decades for nothing. The few instructors they have are nice enough, give it a try....then consider the pluses and minus of Skip racing. Report back.

[John Greist]

Agree with Quentin, without benefit of trying Russell. Never felt the need and the long commute there for us is the reverse of Q's to the Midwest and east.

Also agree with many that we'd like costs rolled back to the good old days levels, but recognize we don't have our hands on the tiller or our faces in the wind, so it's too easy to take pot shots at a slow moving target that bleeds profusely when hit.

There are many alternatives, some less and many more expensive. I doubt any will be more instructive or more fun for more racers at many levels of development at any price than SBR. Raced MX-5s at RA last weekend in our first SCCA outing. Great racing for Revere and me on the track, but registration and officiating made clear other areas where Skippy shines. MX-5s perfectly prepared by BSI RACING and absolutely equal, but not as challenging/satisfying as RT-2000s let alone School Cars.

Racing with Quentin, Revere and many of you is golden and I'm looking forward to RA end of September, one of the great Skippy events of any year.

[cdh]

Originally Posted by Quentin

I've done Russell, and I've done Skip. Russell is just a drive up the road from me and 9 times out of 10 I have to fly to the Skip races, which costs me another day.
Yet, I still race Skip every chance I get. To me Skip is much more professional and tons more fun. There are lots of reasons why, lots, but maybe anyone wondering why should try Russell. Its good. But, it's not one track in one place for the past few decades for nothing. The few instructors they have are nice enough, give it a try....then consider the pluses and minus of Skip racing. Report back.

Good post Q, thanks. Anyone else out there who has done both Russell & Skip?

Quentin, sounds like one of the biggest differences is the feedback you get at Russell vs Skip. No doubt one of Skip's best assets is their crews, everyone involved in pulling off a race weekend. They do it very well given all the perceived shortcomings of other "departments"

[chsutherland]

When Revere was DQ'ed for being too light, and they gave the win to you Dr John, I didn't see too much complaining! True the RT is more of a challenge. I didn't even consider Russell when looking to start racing. SB is the way to go, I just wish we got more track time without it costing an arm and a leg. Racing with one arm, or one leg can be very dangerous.

[John Greist]

Originally Posted by chsutherland

When Revere was DQ'ed for being too light, and they gave the win to you Dr John, I didn't see too much complaining! True the RT is more of a challenge. I didn't even consider Russell when looking to start racing. SB is the way to go, I just wish we got more track time without it costing an arm and a leg. Racing with one arm, or one leg can be very dangerous.

No complaint from me because I'd been DQ'd after qualifying for being too light and had to start DFL while Revere was P2.

As a commentary on the precision and reliability of SCCA scales, Revere was plenty heavy after qualifying but DQ'd after the race with 3 weighings of 16, 14, and 9 pound light.

Worked to your advantage too as you were second that race!

Good thing Skippy doesn't weigh us in Regionals. Imagine the tactics and arguments that would result.

[chsutherland]

Revere is a fast little devil. The weights were strange, i think they have a 10 pound window. Either way it was awfully fun to race with you all. You didn't seem miffed when told you would have to start DFL. I knew you would come charging through the field. 289 Cobra sold today, so i hope to see you at the track soon Dr John!! Is this Dr John your long lost brother? Any piano or singing talents? I forgot to look for Peter's brother, but he was at the track and in our class.

[cdh]

threads sure have been wandering around lately, funny stuff. I can never resist......

[cdh]

The Good Dr Greist asked that I post these photos and his text that accompanied them. Great era, wonderful pics, thanks Doc and MHP.

The Time Warp Continues.....(as does the hijack )

"And the beat goes on. These photos courtesy of MHP from the Monterey appreciation of INDY car Roadsters this year. Both the DA Lubricant Specials I worked on in '58 have been restored! The first is the '56 Kuzma Bob Sweikert drove to 6th in '56, Johnny Thompson to 12th in '57 and just missed qualifying with Freddie Agabasian in '58. The restoration is missing the black flames from '58 (see avatar). The other is a '58 Kurtis with independent front suspension that was a bust, though Thompson qualified and ran 40+ laps after being damanged in the first lap turn 3 crash that killed Pat O'Connor. Rear view mirrors are not authentic - there were none."

[cdh]

Apparently the Historics thought the #22 was pretty special also (although a different 22, is it the Kurtis Doc?)

Check out the home page for the event link to galleries there.



Here is an excellent Indy roadster gallery Brave souls raced those cars.



Well, we've made some progress here, I can understand why Dan looks nervous....

[chsutherland]

Thats very cool. Beautiful car.

[John Greist]

Actually, I sent the photos in reverse order, so the descriptions are reversed.

Fascinating now to see the front of the Kuzma #22 which has been modified with an air scoop and a screen grill which had a large DA in it from '56 = '58.

[John Greist]

Originally Posted by cdh

Apparently the Historics thought the #22 was pretty special also (although a different 22, is it the Kurtis Doc?)

Check out the home page for the event link to galleries there.



Here is an excellent Indy roadster gallery Brave souls raced those cars.



Well, we've made some progress here, I can understand why Dan looks nervous....

Solid front axle in the #22 Kuzma - I reversed order of pictures. Kurtis had independent front suspension, didn't do well and solid front axles returned for most cars through the end of the Roadster era.

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by John Greist

The restoration is missing the black flames from '58 (see avatar)

and your helmet, which I think is the coolest on the grid. Great car, great helmet. John, perhaps you should purchase the restored car and correct the paint scheme. And then drive it yourself next year.

Thanks for sharing the pics

[John Greist]

Originally Posted by Slowhands

and your helmet, which I think is the coolest on the grid. Great car, great helmet. John, perhaps you should purchase the restored car and correct the paint scheme. And then drive it yourself next year.

Thanks Harsha, the thought has occurred.

[cdh]

Originally Posted by Slowhands

and your helmet, which I think is the coolest on the grid. Great car, great helmet. John, perhaps you should purchase the restored car and correct the paint scheme. And then drive it yourself next year.

nice try Harsha (btw, perfect hangover avatar, lol)

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by cdh

nice try Harsha (btw, perfect hangover avatar, lol)

can't blame a guy for trying, can you?

BTW, to return to one of the earlier subjects of this thread that was a segue from the Russell cars-- my SSA Geb Souhan just got canned today. He was only my SSA for a few months, having taken over from my original SSA Steve Kunsey, who had been with me since my first 2-day driving school until he was, you guessed it, canned.

Signs and symptoms.

[wbs]

Hmm, you sure they're firing everyone and some aren't just leaving? Not exactly the way to build morale if it's all management's doing. Geb was my SSA too, nice, easy-going guy, but I gotta say, not always too on top of things.

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by wbs

Hmm, you sure they're firing everyone and some aren't just leaving? Not exactly the way to build morale if it's all management's doing. Geb was my SSA too, nice, easy-going guy, but I gotta say, not always too on top of things.

Geb's performance for me was unfortunately similar to what you describe. Kunsey's departure was more concerning, as he was always a couple of steps ahead of me, quite obvious why he was their top SSA in terms of sales, and that didn't save him (or buy him a good enough situation to stay, whatever the case may have been). It's a continuing chain of similar events. Another example is Lisa Golde, who ran the Panoz series very well for many years (I was a customer last year, ran 2 seasons). When Skip acquired Panoz recently, she was told she would be given a mangement level position, which would have been smart on their part. She is good. Now I find out she's already been fired. The pattern is what is worrisome.

[John Greist]

Originally Posted by Slowhands

BTW, to return to one of the earlier subjects of this thread that was a segue from the Russell cars-- my SSA Geb Souhan just got canned today. He was only my SSA for a few months, having taken over from my original SSA Steve Kunsey, who had been with me since my first 2-day driving school until he was, you guessed it, canned.

Signs and symptoms.

Docs are good at signs and symptoms, especially recurrent ones, even in business.

[wbs]

The departure that surprised me was Kim's, as bemoaned by many on an earlier thread here.

[donv]

All seems obvious to me as a trader it looks like a corporate pump and dump albeit not stock related.

Trying to sell a company like this one is tough, and I'm sure the principals have decided no mas on any more capital calls. Result is cut expenses to extreme levels, accelerate cash flow with instant and pre-billing and fire anyone who is not paid piecework or commission. It won't work to sell the company but it could delay capital calls until an angel investor shows up.

I wouldn't be paying in advance for winter series for a 10% discount, maybe 25% and i would take the risk.

I guess i should call my guy earl who left messages on land and cell phones to call him immediately yesterday.

Anyone care to add up the $2500 D/p's at risk from dozens of customers, i will ask for mine back after RA and pay it again in November, sorry but my day job is all about risk-reward so i have no choice

[LimeRockRacer]

Wow. I am interested to here what you find out Don. If it walks like a duck....

[donv]

Originally Posted by LimeRockRacer

Wow. I am interested to here what you find out Don. If it walks like a duck....

Chris, this all a guess on my part based on what I see,feel and hear....but why would all these things be happening if everything was going well?

No answer on earls direct phone # whatever that means...i do see my cc was charged for a LF extra, even though earl has instructions from me to never charge without calling me first. The charge is legit but still surprised no call first, unless of course he is gone.

[LimeRockRacer]

I had heard it was a "round of layoffs"...

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by donv

Anyone care to add up the $2500 D/p's at risk from dozens of customers, i will ask for mine back after RA and pay it again in November, sorry but my day job is all about risk-reward so i have no choice

Don, what $2500 are you referring to?

[donv]

Originally Posted by Slowhands

Don, what $2500 are you referring to?

When you schedule a race weekend they require a $2500 D/P for any crash damage. It is returned at end of season or after an event if you have nothing else scheduled. However since many of us always have future events scheduled the D/P is not returned.

Maybe for some reason they didn't require one on you but it is usually standard once you start racing with skippy. I would be interested to see if others do not have a deposit, maybe the jokes on me!!

[dalyduo]

The joke's not on you Don... The jokes on those of us who have forgotten we have the deposit there after a couple of years. Thanks for the reminder!

[Duc998M]

$2,500? Mine is only $1,000. I have heard others say $1,000.

Marc

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by donv

When you schedule a race weekend they require a $2500 D/P for any crash damage. It is returned at end of season or after an event if you have nothing else scheduled. However since many of us always have future events scheduled the D/P is not returned.
Maybe for some reason they didn't require one on you but it is usually standard once you start racing with skippy. I would be interested to see if others do not have a deposit, maybe the jokes on me!!

Whew! I thought maybe, like Pat, I had forgotten something. No, mine's $1000, put down Oct 2005. And I hadn't forgotten it, although you bring up an interesting point about asking for it back.

Anyone else $2500? Maybe we should have a poll!

[SB Driver]

Originally Posted by donv

No answer on earls direct phone # whatever that means...i do see my cc was charged for a LF extra, even though earl has instructions from me to never charge without calling me first. The charge is legit but still surprised no call first, unless of course he is gone.

Funny thing. I had a message Tue evening on my answering machine from Earl asking me to call him. So I called Wed morning and at first he couldn't remember calling me, then said he was calling to see how my weekend at Mid-O went. Thought it was sorta strange.

[SB Driver]

Originally Posted by Slowhands

Anyone else $2500? Maybe we should have a poll!

$1000 for me.

[dalyduo]

Pretty sure mine is $1,000 as well. Will have to double check.

[Duc998M]

Earl always calls me a couple of days after a race weekend to see how everything was. Then a month or so later he calls me with the tally.

At first I thought it was weird but he has done it after every race weekend since the beginning of the summer.

Marc

[robbyracenut]

I was told when I signed up for my advanced 2 day that it was $1000 for the races and $500 for any of the other "advanced activities". I'd also like to point out how worrying this is for someone just getting started with the Skip Barber program. Instead of being able to plan weekends off of work to attend events with some certainty, I'm now more concerned with recovering any cash I currently have tied up in Skip Barber. I work as a program analyst in the State Department and my job is to detect patterns exactly like this one when they occur in gov't contractors/subcontractors. If everything I'm hearing on this board is true, it sounds like there are indeed some rough times ahead for Skippy racers. I'm certainly getting my deposit back; it is much easier to put a deposit down with a payment to race than it is to leave it with them and risk losing it. Hopefully we're all wrong about this... I'd really like to run some Skippy events in the Eastern series next season.