Helmets and sight lines

[Rosso]

I have worn a Bell M-3 EC helmet, which has a fairly small eyeport, for the last couple of years. Two weeks ago at Road America though, I found that the tachometer was way out of my line of sight, obscured by the chin bar, and I had to make a conscious effort to look down to see the tach as the rpm neared 6,000. In a couple of places I found this to be a real distraction, like the Carousel center-to-exit and the entry to T6. Of course if I’m looking down, I’m obviously not looking down the track. I don’t remember being distracted by this at Laguna or Mid Ohio.

Coincidently, I also had a seat insert made and I used a Sparco neck/helmet support collar, which I have not used in the past. Could the neck support be pushing the chin of the helmet up? Does anyone else have this problem?

[rslonaker]

Rosso,
I have seen many with the neck/head collar have that problem. Usually not the helmet eyeport. Try a session without the collar and see if the tach doesn't come back ino view.

[oldredracer]

First time I ever sat in a Skippy car I had my brand new collar and Bieffe Predator on. I couldn' t even see the steering wheel. When I asked about seat position, I got a couple of gentle taps on the helmet, followed by the suggestion that I remove the collar. My vision improved dramatically. This in the days before HANS, btw.

Just in case this is the next question, I've had several people ask me about restricted head movement with a HANS and I can only tell them that it bothered me too...from pit out at LR to somewhere around the uphill, by which time I was focusing on other things and didn't even remember I had it on until I tried to take my helmet off with the seat belts still fastened.

And you didn't ask this either, but HANS equals collar like scissors equals paper.

The seat insert will give you much more feedback from the car. A HANS may be insurance you can't afford to be without.

[Slowhands]

Mike--

Strengthen your neck muscles and you'll realize how superfluous a collar is. For me, stronger neck = dramatic reduction in physical fatigue in the car, as well as helping keep my eyes from getting lazy at the end of the day/race.

And what, no HANS? tsk, tsk.

[Rosso]

Originally Posted by Slowhands

Mike--

Strengthen your neck muscles and you'll realize how superfluous a collar is. For me, stronger neck = dramatic reduction in physical fatigue in the car, as well as helping keep my eyes from getting lazy at the end of the day/race.

Curiously enough, I'm not sure why the sudden compulsion to use a horse collar. Maybe new track anxiety? Kinkophobia? Watched that Katherine Legge YouTube video too many times? Neck fatigue has never been an issue for me in a Skippy car. I did 20 laps in a Fast Tracks stock car at the Kentucky Speedway once (did use a HANS device for that, supplied by the school) that left me with the impression that a 100 lapper would probably be a serious pain in the neck. The HANS didn't seem to supply any lateral neck support in the oval track setting.

Originally Posted by Slowhands

And what, no HANS? tsk, tsk.

OK, OK - duly noted Doctor.

[Andrew]

I had the same problem and thought it was due to the narrow eyeport; it had more to do with my sitting position.
I want a small eyeport in an attempt to minimize any intrusion into the helmet.
I also want to use a neck collar, which I can't due to my sitting position.
I also want to use a HANS device, which I can't due to ... my sitting position.
I try to sit low in the car by 'reclining' as much as possible because the roll hoop on the current cars is useless in a rollover in the gravel. This position no doubt saved me from spending the rest of my life in a wheelchair when I had wheel to wheel contact and went flying from the apex of 5 at RA to the gravel and thumped my head twice during two rollovers and ended up side down with my head buried a couple of inches and the weight of the car on my bent neck. A collar would have helped a lot in that case; the HANS would have done nothing.
When sitting low and wearing the collar, I can't look down enough to see the instruments. I'd rather sit low with no collar than high with one. My chin very nearly rest on my chest and provides a little limited movement in that regard.
When I use the HANS, it catches on the seat belt adjusters; they are way too high on the cars. They end up near my shoulders rather than my chest. It gets worse when they pass over the HANS.
The bottom line is I had to make a choice of using a collar or HANS and sitting high, risking a rollover, or sitting low and be able to see everything better.
By the way, when I wore the HANS and catching it on the adjusters, it was impossible to turn my head enough to see in either mirror.
It was the scariest lap I ever made; I came in and took it off and haven't used it since.
I'm hoping the new cars have better roll hoops and belt adjuster positions.

[dalyduo]

Andrew,

How tall are you?

It seems to me people six feet and over have problems of the type you are describing.

There have been a couple of specially modified seats created for tall drivers that let them sit farther down in the cockpit for a more accommodating driving position. You might ask about them from your CSR as they used to keep them in the parts trailers for those drivers.

One final thought. Have you experimented with headrests? I use an Arai GP5 helmet that has a very narrow eye opening. If I'm in a car with an adjustable headrest it does not have a range of settings that lets me see both my gauges and track comfortably. I need the headrest that attaches with Velcro as they sit farther back and allow a proper helmet angle. Some don’t' use a headrest pad at all.

Good luck!

[Rosso]

Originally Posted by Slowhands

And what, no HANS? tsk, tsk.

So, is the Model 30, medium size, what most of you guys are using?

http://hansdevice.com/s.nl/it.I/id.115/.f?sc=2&category=2

[dalyduo]

That's the one.

Originally Posted by Rosso

So, is the Model 30, medium size, what most of you guys are using?

http://hansdevice.com/s.nl/it.I/id.115/.f?sc=2&category=2

[arig]

Originally Posted by dalyduo

Some don’t' use a headrest pad at all.

You should always use a headrest pad. I didn't when I crashed going backwards and I cracked the helmet on impact.

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by Rosso

So, is the Model 30, medium size, what most of you guys are using?

http://hansdevice.com/s.nl/it.I/id.115/.f?sc=2&category=2

I use the Model 20, which I can use in both sedans and formula cars. JP does the same, from what I recall of my conversation with him about it, which is where I got the idea.

The 20 angles back a little in the formula car, but it doesn't impede anything (like the headrest) and works just fine. I just shorten the tethers in the sedan and keep them factory length in the Skippy car. Last year I did a fair bit of time in sedans (SM and Panoz GT) and it kept me from having to buy 2 different HANS. The 30 pushed my head forward in the sedan, which was not good for my neck.

BTW, I went ahead and got the carbon-fiber version (for the 20, it was about $300 more).

[Slowhands]

Interesting note on collars from the HANS site FAQs:

Can I wear a "horse collar" foam pad with a HANS®?

Yes. Note testing has shown a horse collar adds weight to the helmet and the head that must be carried by the neck. This increases the chance of injury. (Italics mine) Wear one for comfort, not safety related reasons.

Hmm

[dalyduo]

First I've heard of someone using a 20 degree model in a Skippy car. Though It had been my observation that JP didn't wear a HANS in Skippy cars. Glad to hear it if he now is.

The carbon fiber version is a few ounces lighter but functionally no different from standard version. The company itself says there is absolutely no difference in performance.

I have an older model that pre-dates the lip that helps keep belts from slipping off. I see they have new shoulder pads available that reduce those raspberries on your collarbone.

Many new size and accessory options now. Much nicer web site too.

Originally Posted by Slowhands

I use the Model 20, which I can use in both sedans and formula cars. JP does the same, from what I recall of my conversation with him about it, which is where I got the idea.

The 20 angles back a little in the formula car, but it doesn't impede anything (like the headrest) and works just fine. I just shorten the tethers in the sedan and keep them factory length in the Skippy car. Last year I did a fair bit of time in sedans (SM and Panoz GT) and it kept me from having to buy 2 different HANS. The 30 pushed my head forward in the sedan, which was not good for my neck.

BTW, I went ahead and got the carbon-fiber version (for the 20, it was about $300 more).

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by dalyduo

Though It had been my observation that JP didn't wear a HANS in Skippy cars. Glad to hear it if he now is.

I, too, have never seen JP wear a HANS in a Skippy car (but then again, he's driving at <5 tenths most of the time). What I do recall is him telling me he uses the same one regardless of type of vehicle. Perhaps I misheard, but it works fine for me. I would recommend someone test it out both ways before deciding, if it's an issue.

The carbon fiber version is a few ounces lighter but functionally no different from standard version. The company itself says there is absolutely no difference in performance.

I agree. But lighter is better. And mine's lighter than yours.

I have an older model that pre-dates the lip that helps keep belts from slipping off. I see they have new shoulder pads available that reduce those raspberries on your collarbone.

the gel pads are nice. But as tight as I cinch down my belts, I've still developed a scar on my left shoulder.

[Kasey]

"I, too, have never seen JP wear a HANS in a Skippy car (but then again, he's driving at <5 tenths most of the time)...."

Only problem with this logic is that he is usually mixed in with US! I almost crashed him twice this year already.

[Rosso]

Originally Posted by dalyduo

...The carbon fiber version is a few ounces lighter but functionally no different from standard version...

I hear they are considering calling this the "MD" version. (HARSHA I'M JUST KIDDING)

Originally Posted by dalyduo

Much nicer web site too.

I never saw the old website, but it annoys me mightily to find multiple spelling and grammar errors on sites that have been up more than a week that are for a technical product. My concern is that their analytical skills are as weak as their written communications skills.

[Andrew]

Pat,

Thanks for the tip re: special seats.
I am six feet tall and already discovered the velcro headrest; it does work better for me.
My biggest problem is with the height of the adjusting buckles; I should take a closer look at them. It seems to me that shorter drivers would also have the same problem because although they may sit lower, they must also be sitting more forward. Maybe SBRS can mount the belts so the belts are longer to the adjusters. I suppose it depends on how much length remains behind the mounting bracket.

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by Rosso

I never saw the old website, but it annoys me mightily to find multiple spelling and grammar errors on sites that have been up more than a week that are for a technical product. My concern is that their analytical skills are as weak as their written communications skills.

wait....could it be...that...maybe,.....they're ........ engineers???


(sorry, Mike, couldn't resist)

[Rosso]

Originally Posted by Slowhands

wait....could it be...that...maybe,.....they're ........ engineers???


(sorry, Mike, couldn't resist)

Shamefully, it's probable.

[Slowhands]

present company excepted, of course

[SB Driver]

Originally Posted by Slowhands

Strengthen your neck muscles and you'll realize how superfluous a collar is. For me, stronger neck = dramatic reduction in physical fatigue in the car, as well as helping keep my eyes from getting lazy at the end of the day/race.

Hey Harsha, any good references for specific exercises that help the most? Thanks.

Back on topic...

[Slowhands]

Originally Posted by SB Driver

Hey Harsha, any good references for specific exercises that help the most? Thanks..

SB Driver,

Sorry to take so long to reply to your post... due to the traveling I've been doing for the past 2 weeks and the lack of internet access in Tremblant.

I don't know of any specific references but I'll tell you what I do. I began working on improving the strength and flexibility of my neck and lower back about a year ago due to worsening of chronic problems in those areas as a result of old injuries and the awkward and sustained positions I had to adopt while examining and operating on peoples retinas. It was looking like I might need spine surgery and I wanted to do everything possible to avoid that, as I had seen both good and bad results of that approach.

I have found yoga to be the most relevant preparation for my body for racing. It emphasizes a balance between strength and flexibility, peripheral and core muscles. Many yoga postures target the back and neck. Yoga poses are sustained and released gradually, similar to what one experiences in a race car due to the G-loads of cornering, accelerating, and braking. I try to attend a yoga class 2-3 times a week. Alternatively, many gyms have a Nautilus or Cybex neck machine if you prefer that. I just don't think that the Western routine of sets of reps with geared resistance produces the kind of functional strength desired for racing.

An exercise that I made up myself (don't laugh!) that seems to reproduce the loads exerted on the neck by the racecar is to put on my helmet, lie down on a bed with my head hanging off the edge, and simply hold my head up for a sustained amount of time, say 30 sec to one minute. I do this in all 4 orientations, and also with rotation. You'll be surprised how much harder this is than it seems (or else my neck is really weak!). I try to be very careful and smooth with these movements because it feels like I could get a cramp or crick in my neck if I moved suddenly or overdid it.

So there you have it. Let me know what you think, if you try any of this.