ATC-1000 Bullet Camera - Team Juicy Racing's Racing School and Race Series Forums

arig · #1 01-20-2006

has anyone seen this bullet camera? it doesn't have the quality of video that you get from the system that sy recommends, but it doesn't look too bad and it does simplify everything. the only thing is, it doesn't have audio.

http://atc1000.com/poison.asp?p=street

MJAmok · #2 01-20-2006

Without audio it is nearly worthless as a learning tool.

arig · #3 01-20-2006

can you overlay audio from a recorder or is that too difficult b/c they will have to be synced.

dalyduo · #4 01-20-2006

You could sync it at the head end but it would lose sync quickly and be virtually impossible to re-sync accurately. Any technical way to hold sync with separate camera and recorder would be more expensive in time and equipment than it would be worth. Better to bite the bullet (so to speak) and get a camera that has sound built in if that's what you want.

cheekychica · #5 01-21-2006

The bullet camera usually connects to a mini-DV camcorder, and it is that device that has the mic.

arig · #6 01-21-2006

i believe this bullet camera records directly onto flash memory so it doesn't a camcorder. that's the advantage of this bullet camera if you don't need audio.

dalyduo · #7 01-21-2006

You might have a memory issue as well. There is nothing on their web site that indicates how much time you get per MB of memory at the 3 resolutions offered. You might have to use the mid-level or lowest resolution to record a whole race.

arig · #8 01-21-2006

sorry about the poor grammar i was a little hungover. anyway, it has a memory slot for an SD card and you can get cards with 2gb's now i believe. this post is pretty irrelevant b/c it's not going to be used until they get audio on it. sorry to waste your time.

cdh · #9 01-21-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by arig

sorry about the poor grammar i was a little hungover. anyway, it has a memory slot for an SD card and you can get cards with 2gb's now i believe. this post is pretty irrelevant b/c it's not going to be used until they get audio on it. sorry to waste your time.

Not a waste of time at all, always interested in this sort of thing. If used for cutaways in conjunction with the rollbar bullet cam/camcorder, it could be mounted in some fun places on a car. Looking back at driver, on side of nose looking back, low frame rail shooting suspension, near feet, etc etc.

I don't think the data rate would make for decent DVD presentation though and it's only 15 FPS (concerns me the most), but would be fun for web-only vids. And you really wouldn't have to worry about sync if it's for cutaways. Interesting, thanks...

WatertownNewbie · #10 01-22-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJAmok

Without audio it is nearly worthless as a learning tool.

When you watch one of your race videos, what do you listen for? (This is meant as a serious question -- I want to know whether I am listening for the right things.) My guess is rpm levels, timing of shifts, noise from tires. Yep? Nope?

rocorerick · #11 01-22-2006

I just recieved one of these cameras yesterday and will start playing with it today. Tha camera has a slot for an additional SD memory card and there is a microphone in the camera.

I agree you need sound for it to be an effective training tool and I should know shortly how the thing works, if it picks up sound and the quality of the images.

More later this afternoon.

dalyduo · #12 01-22-2006

Exactly right. You can hear where you are lifting off the gas to breathe or for brake points. You can also hear shift points and tire noise.

It is common, in the heat of battle, to either not know or exactly recall what happened at a critical moment and the audio will provide important clues or definitive evidence as to what really took place.

A humbling case in point:
Last Feb. at Sebring on the last lap of race 1 running P2 and pushing hard to pressure P1 (with no clutch) I spun while turning into the carousel. After the race I told people it happened because I'd struggled with the clutchless double downshift into turn three. I was absolutely certain I'd upset my rhythm enough going through turn 4 to cause the spin. I was less than half right. The audio on the video revealed the whole truth. I had made the serious mental error of turning-in to the carousel first and then lifting to brake, causing the immediate fatal (to my race) spin. Perhaps the struggle with the downshift had broken my concentration but the actual error had nothing to do with my rhythm through four. It was a combination of being slightly distracted by the downshift, and then completely over focused on catching P1, that spawned the fatal mental error.

Without that audio, I'd have sworn on my mother’s grave that I'd lifted and braked correctly before turning-in to the carousel. The audio made the error irrefutable and was enormously helpful in understanding how important mind management was at critical moments in a race. It has helped me many times since then. All due to that tiny moment of audio on the race video.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatertownNewbie

When you watch one of your race videos, what do you listen for? (This is meant as a serious question -- I want to know whether I am listening for the right things.) My guess is rpm levels, timing of shifts, noise from tires. Yep? Nope?

rocorerick · #13 01-22-2006

I just tried out the camera and it does indeed record sound as well as video. Using the the standard startup settings the quality of both appears fine. Have no idea about recording capacity but 10 minutes of recording had little effect on remaining space if I interpreted the screen correctly.

I'll have it with me at Sebring next month for it's first track test so we'll see how it performs in that environment. Stop over and have a look.

dalyduo · #14 01-22-2006

Sounds very promising.

If you're going to mount it forward facing on the roll bar you may want to consider putting some sort of optically clear disposable protection over the lens. It won't take long, especially at Sebring, for the lens to degrade noticably due to pitting from sand or dirt. At $100 for the whole camera, the lens is probably plastic and won't survive sand blasting at over 100mph for very long. Any durable piece of mylar or plastic you can replace after each run should do the trick. Sy or Doug may have more specific advice on this.

You may also need to create some sort of wind screen or sound attenuator to make the sound usable. The wind noise and volume while running can overpower the default settings for standard sound levels, but you'll have to try it out first to see how much of an issue it is.

MJAmok · #15 01-22-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatertownNewbie

When you watch one of your race videos, what do you listen for? (This is meant as a serious question -- I want to know whether I am listening for the right things.) My guess is rpm levels, timing of shifts, noise from tires. Yep? Nope?

Mainly I listen for my voice screaming inside my helmet about all the dumb things I did!

No, seriously I listen for all of the things you mentioned. But, I also listen for my 'back to power' point. I often find that I am back to power later than I think. Listening to that and correcting it has made a big difference from season to season.

MJAmok · #16 01-22-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdh

If used for cutaways in conjunction with the rollbar bullet cam/camcorder, it could be mounted in some fun places on a car. Looking back at driver, on side of nose looking back, low frame rail shooting suspension, near feet, etc etc.

Wow... that is the difference between a pragmatic dork like me and a creative genius like Doug!

dalyduo · #17 01-23-2006

Doug thinks there might be too much motion, but I think it might be interesting to mount a lens on the steering wheel hub looking back at the driver. It would point out how little wheel turning actually occurs during most laps and provide comic relief during a full lock spin or sawing at the wheel to catch a slide. Certainly worth a try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdh

If used for cutaways in conjunction with the rollbar bullet cam/camcorder, it could be mounted in some fun places on a car. Looking back at driver, on side of nose looking back, low frame rail shooting suspension, near feet, etc etc.

rocorerick · #18 01-23-2006

I plan to use it initially on the roll hoop for practice just to see what kind of results i get but stay with Mikes cameras for the race. I like the idea of the sterring column and maybe even try out the foot box. Might be interesting to see how bad my foot work actually is.
The way the camera is made, with the location of the microphone, makes it more difficult to find some way to protect the lens. If you you cover the entire end you'd be covering the mike. The lens itself is very small and located under the mike. I'll show it to you at Sebring and we can experiment with some things.
Alignment may also be more challenging. I like to see both the road and my hands doing the steering and shifting on my videos and verifying the alignment is going to require a PC hookup at setup. I'm not sure I want the extra fooling around right before I go out when I should be fully concentrating on the task at hand. I've watched other guys struggling to get their cameras or headsets or whatever going and they seem rushed and stressed at what is not the most oppurtune time. I'm slow enough without adding more things to do right before I go out.

dalyduo · #19 01-23-2006

Absolutely right. Experiment with it on someone else in another group (or the person sharing your car) to get the settings right rather than distract yourself before precious seat time. You may find that covering the mike doesn't hurt or actually improves the sound for reasons mentioned earlier. At the $100 cost point you've got absolutely nothing to lose, but your instincts are exactly right not to distract yourself with set-up when you should be focused on your driving.