1 Day Formula/MX-5 racing school

[M3Perfection]

I have been searching for info on this course and can't find anything. Anyone been to the Road Atlanta class? I plan on attending in the spring.

[dalyduo]

Welcome aboard Joe,

You'll probably have a vehicle dynamics classroom discussion before getting in the cars, with half the group driving and the other half riding with lead follow instructors. You'll have at least one and probably two driving sessions in each car.

The two cars are very different in the way they drive and handle so this is a good opportunity to experience them back to back and see where your preference lies.

Driving half a day in two different cars doesn't leave much time for instruction. It's really an extended sampling of the cars. You'll have a lot of fun and wind up with a taste of how much more fun you'll have at a dedicated three day racing school. :-)

Keep us posted on your experience!

Pat

Originally Posted by M3Perfection

I have been searching for info on this course and can't find anything. Anyone been to the Road Atlanta class? I plan on attending in the spring.

[M3Perfection]

Thanks for the quick response. I am not going until spring so that I can have time to drop 10 pounds and work the smaller muscles required for the formula car. I am 30, 6'1" and 210 lbs so not exactly the ideal open wheel driver, but I can't wait to drive one! I know I probably won't be doing anywhere near 7/10ths, but I want to focus on what the car is telling me, not worry about shaky arms and a rubber neck...

[dalyduo]

Great strategy Joe. Being fit will only improve your enjoyment and awareness of the experience.

There are three different open wheel frame configurations.
An XS frame usually fits people at or below about 5' 9". The XS is identified by two tie wraps on the roll bar.
The AS frame usually works for folks at or below about 6' and is identified by one tie wrap on the roll bar.
The A frame usually works for people at or above about 6" and A cars have no tie wraps on the roll bar.

You're height and weight shouldn't be a problem in an A car. Seats and pedals are adjustable in all cars and there will also be thin foam seat pads available to fine tune your seat fit. You will probably fill out a questionnaire that asks your height and that will guide instructors to assign you to the correct size car. Instructors and mechanics will also be there to make sure you fit the car and are strapped in properly.

Originally Posted by M3Perfection

Thanks for the quick response. I am not going until spring so that I can have time to drop 10 pounds and work the smaller muscles required for the formula car. I am 30, 6'1" and 210 lbs so not exactly the ideal open wheel driver, but I can't wait to drive one! I know I probably won't be doing anywhere near 7/10ths, but I want to focus on what the car is telling me, not worry about shaky arms and a rubber neck...

[GT-Subject]

Originally Posted by dalyduo

An XS frame usually fits people at or below about 5' 9". The XS is identified by two tie wraps on the roll bar.
The AS frame usually works for folks at or below about 6' and is identified by one tie wrap on the roll bar.
The A frame usually works for people at or above about 6" and A cars have no tie wraps on the roll bar.

Pat (dalyduo), you forgot the ASS frame - short for jackASSery. Sorry for pun Joe, we have a lot of fun at Skippy events. I am sure that you will find it to be a fun and rewarding experience.

[M3Perfection]

No Worries....you guys sound like my kind of people......wait, that does worry me....

[dalyduo]

Whoa... Major oversight there Paul... Thanks for the correction.

Originally Posted by GT-Subject

Pat (dalyduo), you forgot the ASS frame - short for jackASSery. Sorry for pun Joe, we have a lot of fun at Skippy events. I am sure that you will find it to be a fun and rewarding experience.

Be afraid Joe... Be very afraid!

Originally Posted by M3Perfection

No Worries....you guys sound like my kind of people......wait, that does worry me....

[GT-Subject]

Oh Joe - I am afraid you are already hooked and you haven't been in a race car yet.................oh boy!!!!!

[M3Perfection]

I am a lost cause. My passion for cars and driving can only lead to heart ache......or a fabricated reality to compensate for the aformentioned.

[M3Perfection]

The cars I will be in have no wings, and a 4 spd maual that requires double clutching right?

[dalyduo]

The old school cars with no wings and a four speed crash box are all gone. You will be learning in the winged race series cars with a five speed sequential box. They phased out the old school cars last year as it was easier and cheaper to maintain the same car for teaching and racing. Sadly this will no longer afford the opportunity to learn and practice double clutching.

Originally Posted by M3Perfection

The cars I will be in have no wings, and a 4 spd maual that requires double clutching right?

[M3Perfection]

Interesting. Well, I can't practice timing my throttle blips in my truck then....sounds like less to worry about though. Is left foot braking a possibility? or is the steering shaft in the way?

[dalyduo]

The footwell is tight and the steering shaft is between your legs. It's almost physically impossible though I've heard a couple people with small feet claim they can. For all practical purposes... you can't left foot brake in the open wheel cars.

You do need to blip during downshifts, but you do it with the clutch in to match revs. It's easier than double clutching because you don't have the extra cycle of releasing the clutch reving the motor and depressing the clutch again to complete your downshift.

I recall it feeling strange to blip without going through the double pump but you'll pick it up quickly.

Originally Posted by M3Perfection

Interesting. Well, I can't practice timing my throttle blips in my truck then....sounds like less to worry about though. Is left foot braking a possibility? or is the steering shaft in the way?

[M3Perfection]

Do you push foreward to downshift? Sorry for all the questions, the more time I have to correct the suppositions I have made, the better. I am used to pulling back for upshifts on sequential gearbox simulators, so I would like to reverse it if I need to. That would make a good sticky, a good rundown of the general workings and layout of the car for those members yet to have seen the formula cars, let alone driven them. A beginners orientaion.

[dalyduo]

No problem,

Your experience with the simulators will serve you well. Upshifts are a pull back toward you and downshifts are a push forward.

For upshifts pre load the shifter back toward you and then crack out of the throttle and it will slide up to the next gear without using the clutch. Downshifts are best using the clutch with a throttle blip to match the revs.

Originally Posted by M3Perfection

Do you push foreward to downshift? Sorry for all the questions, the more time I have to correct the suppositions I have made, the better. I am used to pulling back for upshifts on sequential gearbox simulators, so I would like to reverse it if I need to. That would make a good sticky, a good rundown of the general workings and layout of the car for those members yet to have seen the formula cars, let alone driven them. A beginners orientaion.

[M3Perfection]

Thank you, very helpful. Glad to know I didn't mislead myself....I hate to keep asking questions, is there a spec sheet aside from what is listed on the Skip Barber website. That way I won't waste anyone's time asking about details that I probably should not worry about in the first place. I would just like to understand my tools so I can use them efficiently. Thanks for your patience!

[dalyduo]

There is no spec sheet that I'm aware of. The only dumb questions are those not asked. We've all known the excitement of starting the journey and we're happy to help. Ask away.

[Tireman]

Originally Posted by dalyduo

......The footwell is tight and the steering shaft is between your legs. It's almost physically impossible though I've heard a couple people with small feet claim they can. For all practical purposes... you can't left foot brake in the open wheel cars.....

Pat, don't forget, Trent Hindman left foot brakes exclusively, and wins a lot !!

Viz

[GT-Subject]

Originally Posted by Tireman

Pat, don't forget, Trent Hindman left foot brakes exclusively, and wins a lot !!

Viz

Viz - don't forget - that kid's a midget!!! Well, he is a kid after all under - easily under 5'5"......Hold it, Viz how tall are you??? Have you been left foot braking all this time???? Thats why you are getting so fast!!! Ah Hah!!

[dalyduo]

Trent is a terrific driver and an even better kid but he's the size of a gnome. You can easily left foot brake a skippy formula car if your shoes came from a Ken doll. The pedal box is so tight my relatively normal size 11 single right shoe will hang up on the brake pedal edge while attempting to transfer from gas to brake if I'm not careful. Hats off to anyone who can do it but I couldn't left foot brake those cars if my life depended on it. We could do a poll about it but I'm pretty sure the vast majority can't get their foot under the steering column to make it happen.

Originally Posted by Tireman

Pat, don't forget, Trent Hindman left foot brakes exclusively, and wins a lot !!

Viz

[rcote]

Remember another thing that helps out the smaller guys with left foot braking is that in the xs sized cars the pedal box is closer to the driver. With that setup there is a greater distance between the floor and the steering shaft. That combined with smaller feet make left foot braking possible for the smaller fellas.

[dalyduo]

That explains a lot of things... Thanks Roger.
All I've noticed about xs cars when bedding brakes or scrubbing tires is that I can't drive 'em. Feet jammed up in the pedal box and knees banging against the dash board bulk head make all pedal work slow and ponderous.

Given your wise explanation wonder how many of the wee people are left footing it?

Originally Posted by rcote

Remember another thing that helps out the smaller guys with left foot braking is that in the xs sized cars the pedal box is closer to the driver. With that setup there is a greater distance between the floor and the steering shaft. That combined with smaller feet make left foot braking possible for the smaller fellas.

[Tireman]

Originally Posted by GT-Subject

Viz - don't forget - that kid's a midget!!! Well, he is a kid after all under - easily under 5'5"......Hold it, Viz how tall are you??? Have you been left foot braking all this time???? Thats why you are getting so fast!!! Ah Hah!!

I opted not to comment on Trent's height.....after all, I'm no giant myself. But, as Phil Lombardi said, we (Phil, Trent, myself, and all of those little folks) are of "proper (height) stature" when it comes to racing.

Viz

[LimeRockRacer]

Damn jockeys!

[M3Perfection]

I think the only fair way to handle this is for the larger guys to be given wider tires and a 50 hp handicap.....

[dalyduo]

We already have that as our extra weight squashes the tires down and robs us of power compared to the feather weights.

Originally Posted by M3Perfection

I think the only fair way to handle this is for the larger guys to be given wider tires and a 50 hp handicap.....

[cdh]

make that a 50 HP advantage

[M3Perfection]

That's what I meant. Somtimes things don't travel in a straight line in my head.

[M3Perfection]

Update: It's a little less than a month until my 1 day racing school at Road Atlanta. I've been trying to prepare for driving a formula car by losing 15 lbs, heavy workout program, mental prep, and some indoor karting at andretti's. I bought racing shoes and gloves, and it just dawned on me....what am I wearing under the provided racing suit? I got the impression that we just put it on over our clothes, so anyone have any ideas what is comfortable under there besides nomex underwear? Also, how much is onboard footage? I guess it's obvious I'm a little excited about my extended test ride. I am already trying to scrape money together for another class.....

[dalyduo]

If you know you're going to do more of this then investing in a good set of nomex is a good idea. Otherwise a comfortable t-shirt and whatever kind of underwear you use (boxer or briefs) will have to do. You don't wear your jeans or pants inside the suit. If it's a very cold day you could wear long sleeves or a sweat shirt under the suit but doubt you'll need it. The MX-5's offer a bit more comfort from the wind than the open wheel cars do. Don't know if they'll offer video but if they do it's probably $100 or $125.

Originally Posted by M3Perfection

Update: It's a little less than a month until my 1 day racing school at Road Atlanta. I've been trying to prepare for driving a formula car by losing 15 lbs, heavy workout program, mental prep, and some indoor karting at andretti's. I bought racing shoes and gloves, and it just dawned on me....what am I wearing under the provided racing suit? I got the impression that we just put it on over our clothes, so anyone have any ideas what is comfortable under there besides nomex underwear? Also, how much is onboard footage? I guess it's obvious I'm a little excited about my extended test ride. I am already trying to scrape money together for another class.....

[M3Perfection]

Thanks for replying, the rep I talked to (Kelly I think) said something about khakis. I wonder if she was thinking about the perfomance driving class and not the racing class? I still have time to buy nomex (I'm a fireman, and it's easy to come by) I just didn't want to be the guy loaded for bear at a turkey shoot, if you follow...

[Ryan Hall]

A tee shirt and boxers are fine. If its going to be cooler than maybe some sweat pants and a long sleeve tee. Either way, bring a change of clothes, socks and shoes in case of rain. Nothing is worse than driving home soaked.

Have fun!!

[dalyduo]

You shouldn't really need the nomex for a one day. Nothing wrong with the extra safety of having it but I wouldn't sweat it too much. You might be the only one there with Nomex but you won't be made fun of for having it if you do.

Originally Posted by M3Perfection

Thanks for replying, the rep I talked to (Kelly I think) said something about khakis. I wonder if she was thinking about the perfomance driving class and not the racing class? I still have time to buy nomex (I'm a fireman, and it's easy to come by) I just didn't want to be the guy loaded for bear at a turkey shoot, if you follow...

[GT-Subject]

Originally Posted by M3Perfection

I just didn't want to be the guy loaded for bear at a turkey shoot, if you follow...

There are bear at a turkey shoot? Don't mind me, I'm just the token Canadian. Wait till you meet Keith Watts - now there is a guy that is loaded for bear!!!!!!....And elk, moose, elephant, buffalo, etc........

[oldredracer]

Originally Posted by dalyduo

We already have that as our extra weight squashes the tires down and robs us of power compared to the feather weights.

Didn't I read somewhere here that big loads like me are actually quicker in fast sweepers because the extra poundage lowers the ride height?
Read my new book: 'Grasping at Straws', available soon.

[dalyduo]

You heard right... BTW we need your credit card number for that $150 bottle of additive and $50 air mixer that will give your pick-up truck an easy 127mpg!

Originally Posted by oldredracer

Didn't I read somewhere here that big loads like me are actually quicker in fast sweepers because the extra poundage lowers the ride height?
Read my new book: 'Grasping at Straws', available soon.

[oldredracer]

Originally Posted by dalyduo

You heard right... BTW we need your credit card number for that $150 bottle of additive and $50 air mixer that will give your pick-up truck an easy 127mpg!

Excellent! I'll enclose extra $$ for expedited shipping. You will take a check????

[dalyduo]

Happy to expedite shipping but sorry... only major credit cards or money order.

Originally Posted by oldredracer

Excellent! I'll enclose extra $$ for expedited shipping. You will take a check????

[M3Perfection]

Well, they cancelled my date on April 6, don't know why. So I've stopped wearing my helmet while at work.....and while going to the bathroom for that matter. I'm on for May 9 though. I think I should ask for an upgrade to the 3 day school for pain and suffering.

[sydude]

Kelly, c'mon, please help the brother out with an upgrade.

[M3Perfection]

I was thinking about the possibility of not being offered onboard footage due to the nature of the 1 day racing class being split between the formulas and the MX5's. I wonder about bringing a GoPro setup or something. Anyone know if this is allowed? BTW, just got my Alpinestars tech 1z gloves. They feel good, fingertips have good sensation, not so much in the palms. But all I can do is compare them to being barehanded. They're tight, but in a good way; and there are no uncomfortable spots created by the seams. We'll have to see how they hold up with use. Because of the cancellation I am going to have to play hookie from work...

[M3Perfection]

So I had my class, It was a blast! Unfortunately I have spent the last month and a half trying to figure out how I can get back in a formula car. They just really clicked with me. Very predictable, with the tires being used it was easy to tell when you were at the traction limits. Three people crashed, I hung the back end of the mx5 off the outside of turn 7 at road atlanta, but it was a very balanced car and easy to recover. I can't seem to stop overcooking it into turn 1, I don't think I caught the apex but a couple of times. Turn 7 was another area I carried too much mid corner speed. I was at the limit but doesn't do much good with a poor exit. The major problem is since I have left, I have been so melancholy. It's like I have found what fills in the hole I have had in my heart for over a decade. I never could put a finger on it. I have been trying to find out what it is without success since 98. I was so drawn to cars that I tried everything, mechanic work, hot rods, tuners, motorcycles, offroading, detailing, even designing a old style race car based on the alfa 158/159. I loved all of it, but nothing filled the space. I now know what it is, and the heartbreak I feel now that I can't be in a race car is torture.....

[dalyduo]

If the cost point is too high for SB racing on a regular basis look into karting. Many of us kart between race weekends to stay sharp and there are many affordable options. Endurance Karting is a great alternative. Many hours in the kart and if you haven't already done it you'll be surprised how great a workout it is.

The strategy would be to kart on a regular basis while saving up for more open wheel stuff when you can... And keep buying those lottery tickets! :-)

[M3Perfection]

Yeah, sorry about the rant, nobody I know gets it, not even those in my family who race in other sports. I figured if anyone understands what I am saying, it would be here. As for your post, I have been doing alot of research about Karting in general. Trying to find what is most reasonable for my local area. everybody here does the oval track thing, it has its own challenges, but I don't think its for me. I will look closer at endurance. Road atlanta is nice and close, I hope there are some events there. I love that track.