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Old 02-25-2007
TomBobN20 TomBobN20 is offline
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Western Blip T-hill Followup

TJ's, No profound articles by any instructors in this one but there are some interesting things included that you are encouraged to comment on or add to. Have a great one. TR


WESTERN BLIP
POST T-HILL


Greetings from the Great Northwest. It's a gloomy Thursday morning here and
I'm imagining you guys driving down at Sebring, no doubt in 75 degree
weather. Be sure to use your sunscreen. I've had a lot of inquiries about
Thunderhill so I thought I'd get this edition of the Blip out to answer
those questions. The Thunderhill race weekend is sort of a good news, bad
news thing.

First the good news. I heard from a lot of drivers and instructors that
this was one of the best race weekends they have ever had. This despite
less than ideal conditions. The track is easy to get to. Drive one hour
north of the
Sacramento
airport and you hit the exciting metropolis of
Willows, home of the.....well.....okay basically a truck stop. The track is
ten minutes west of town set among the beautiful rolling hills of northern
California
. The track and facilities are first rate. The track is an
intense series of corners, each one a challenge in its own right but linked
together it is a non-stop thrill ride. The instructors very wisely used the
Cyclone bypass at turn 5 so instead of hard braking and first gear you take
this beast flat in third. Then you go airborne. Most with any sense did a
slight lift (Mikel Miller has no sense, he's also freakin' fast) so that you
can negotiate the right-hander at the bottom of the hill. Turn one, think
Sebring turn one, fast as hell after a long straight. Turn 8, think the Kink
at Road
America
(can you do it flat and what about that 25 knot wind trying
to blow you off the track?). It's three miles long and the only rest you get
is the front straight. It is one of the greatest tracks I have driven.

The facilities are amazing. There is a main building where we met. It
includes a great take-out restaurant and the enclosed fourth story
observation floor was open to everyone. There is a huge, covered area that
was used to get in and out of the cars in the dry as well as a refuge from
the weather for the mechanics to work.

After hours was also great. Less than a mile from the track is a Sporting
Clays course (think golf with shotguns). A group of us were humbled trying
to blow away those bloody clay pigeons. Strange, the birds in the area
didn't seem too worried. Must have seen us shoot. We also had a great
Saturday night party at a coffee house called the Common Grounds with forty
people showing up. It may not be fancy restaurants and hotels but it was a great time.

That's the good news. Now for the bad news. We only had 20 drivers show up.
While it created a great driver to instructor ratio, it did not do a lot to
convince the Corporates that Thunderhill needs to be on the schedule. How
we went from a doable 30 to a not so doable 20 in one week is anyone’s guess.
No doubt the weather had something to do with it. Yes, we had three
straight days of rain after a two month drought. (A side note, I think Skippy
should consider a rainmaking service. All they have to do is schedule a
West Coast Race in a rain starved area and it is sure to create precip). The rain was a pain but the driving, truly an example of finding the rain line (there was grip there on the last lap), was still spectacular.


I’m going to admit to a bit of personal frustration here. I started this rag last year in an attempt to build up the numbers in the West Coast Series so we would have enough strength to tell the Corporates back east where we wanted to drive. After all, that is one of the great things about this company. We get to drive many of the great tracks in the US and Canada. But there seems to be the mindset that the West Coast Series can only fill a weekend if it is at Laguna, a mindset that probably was reinforced with the turnout at T-hill. The outcome, run four races at the West Coast home port, Laguna (while every other series runs their home track only twice) and ship the Westies east for the other races. While this saves Skippy a chunk of money, it basically means the West Coast Series (WCS) is virtually the same as Jim Russell Racing who use the same track every race. The reality is most of the West Coast drivers will not fly across the country for a race.

So what is the problem here? Why is it the West Coast doesn’t have the strength of the Series farther east? Maybe the people of the west coast just don’t have enough money to race cars. Hmmm, but I just heard that the state of California has the seventh largest economy of any other COUNTRY in the world. Seems to be plenty of money out here. Perhaps we just don’t like cars as much. But I hear Jay Leno alone has more cars than the entire state of Connecticut. Jeff Kaiser is catching up to Jay, too. So it appears that we like cars. Could be a lack of great tracks out here. But besides Laguna, there are a lot of good tracks that we could use out here. Button Willow (yes, it is in the middle of nowhere just like T-hill) MillerMotorsportPark (which now appears to be permanently on the schedule, thank you). Arizona, Oregon, Nevada, it seems to me that there are plenty of tracks out here that could be great if we had 100 people participating in the WCS.

So why are the other Series working better than ours? These, of course, are just guesses on my part. Certainly there is a lot more camaraderie back east. This is due, at least in part, to the brilliant Team Juicy website. Anyone that has followed the banter of the site can see that there is a strong core of drivers that not only flip each other a lot of poop but also support each other to become the best drivers possible. In the end they have great participation (I believe they had 60 drivers at Sebring last week) and anyone who has ever driven back there knows they have seriously fast drivers, a lot of them.
So why is it that the West Coast can’t do this also? I for one think they can and then some. The WCS could be the most popular series in the company but some serious changes need to happen. I doubt anyone out here is going to come up with a West Coast web site to do what Team Juicy does back East. There really is no point as it would end up being a duplicate of TJ if we were lucky and had the tenacity of Sy Aryeh, the main creator of TJ. Last year Sy asked me to include the Blip on the TJ site and to offer input to make the site more attractive to Westies. He asked me at the time why more didn’t participate. I didn’t have an answer then but have asked others why they didn’t use the site. A common complaint was that those East Coast people are so cliquey. I am here to tell you guys that this isn’t true. Yes, they are tight. That’s a good thing in my mind. They have a whole community that revolves around Skip Barber Racing. Like any community if you stand outside of it and feel left out you will be left out. I want to encourage the Westies to take a chance and join in the activities of this site. You will learn a lot and also be a part of the bigger picture that is possible through this company. If the technology is intimidating they will also help you get going.

Obviously, though, going to a website ain’t going to solve the numbers issue in the west. Which brings me to my next issue. I am told that the numbers for the WCS have actually been going up the past few years. That may be true but I see a big problem. While the numbers of drivers may be increasing, the numbers of drivers in the Championship group appear to be on the decline. While I’m sure some turnover is inevitable, I think there is a serious problem with retention of participants in this company. I personally know of several consistant drivers across the country who have quit do to the problems Skippy is having. I don’t know, I’m just a dentist who doesn’t have a Harvard business degree or a PHD in marketing but I have to say that Skippy could learn a thing or two about marketing from any number of dental seminars across the country. With all due respect and with apologies to the very hard working people at the corporate office, I think that the Skippy Marketing strategy is pitiful. It seems to me that Skip Barber Racing has a revolving door where lots of new people show up for a race or two then are never seen again. Fix this and there will be too many drivers to deal with. Always a nice problem to have if you own a business.

I would like to give the Skippy Corporates a couple of secrets about the people who participate in the regional race series. The vast majority of us will never go on to be F1 drivers but we want to live out our fantasy that we could if things had been different (though I for one know it is only a matter of time before Ferrari calls). We get to live out this fantasy in a small way with your company. I would think you could use this to your advantage. I see Skip Barber ads everywhere. I just received my Porsche Club magazine and there was a Skippy ad. It appears that your external marketing is extensive and working well judging from the numbers of new drivers. It’s the internal marketing that needs a serious shot in the arm.

This may come as a bit of a shock to most of you but going to the dentist is not the most popular thing in the world. The reality is we ask you to give us a lot of money so that we can hurt you. Someone has to do it. And you guys keep coming back at least twice a year. It appears our marketing works. Any dental marketing guru will tell you that external marketing is very expensive and has somewhat limited results. It is used, of course, to get new patients, but the focus always turns to internal marketing, a fancy way of saying treat people right, make them feel special and they will not only keep coming back but they will also send their friends. It is my opinion that Skippy is missing the boat on this one.

Just a few examples. It can take days to get my regional rep on the phone because there are so few people manning the phones for the regional series. I am persistent and will call until I get someone but others will just say forget it. Business lost. It is now Sunday, one week after the Sebring race. No review or results has been posted on the Skippy website about the race. Here is another secret. We like to see our names in print. After a week it is old news and has been on the TJ website. If, however, a former Skip Barber driver wins some big race it is posted the next day. It is great to toot your horn but these drivers aren’t paying customers anymore, we are. We want to read about us not them (remember the F1 fantasy thing). Opportunity lost. This one, by the way, cost nothing. Another, my girlfriend took a corporate course with me and my staff one year ago. She never received a follow-up call of any kind. She did just receive a 10% discount on any driving program in the mail last week. Why wait so long and why only 10%. Missed opportunity. Why not 50%. Take a lesson from heroin dealers. Get them addicted cheaply, then sock it to them like you do the rest of us when we can’t help ourselves. Sure you lose a few bucks initially but you make back big bucks in the long run. And why not get someone to call to see how the program went and when can we expect you to sign up next. It is harder to say no to a person who appears to be interested in your driving future. In three years of driving I have never received a call from anyone to see how things were going. Make me think you care about me and I will feel like a part of your family.

Here is another big secret. Most people are intimidated as hell for their first few races and feel like a complete outsider when they show up at the track. They see all of these hotshot drivers with custom helmets and fancy suits driving at insane speeds around these historic tracks. I remember wondering how I would ever fit in, how would I ever go that fast. I don’t think enough is done to help the new people. Yes I know there is a mentor program but it is sporadic at best and god help you if you get Alan Baia as a mentor. He’s going to tell you all the wrong stuff to do (just kidding, Alan, ya know I love ya, I mean in a guy way, slap on the back kind of thing).

Skippy should be doing everything it can to make these people feel comfortable and a part of the show. To do this, why not utilize the greatest asset in the company (sorry, no it’s not you hotshot corporates), the instructors. These guys make your company what it is, whether you chose to believe it or not. Why not assign the newbies to report to a specific instructor and have the same instructor mentor them for a few races. I hear the instructors moaning at this one. We are not talking a big deal here, no long protracted thing, just a few minutes before and after each session for a little one on one. This creates continuity and begins to open the door to help them feel a part of the Skip Barber family, therefore making those who normally feel alienated and left out after one race more likely to sign up for a second race (and hopefully a third and etc). Do not charge more for this service. It won’t cost you a thing. Also, especially after a person’s first major crash, don’t just hand them a bill. Get an instructor to debrief them and let them know it happens and is part of the process of learning to drive a car fast. I had a major wreck at my second race. I was handed a $4000.00 bill and told not to lift coming out of turn 7 at Road America if I was running out of track. I was pretty bummed and felt like the worlds worst driver. I was going to quit. I would have had I not been taken out to lunch by a driver who told me to keep at it. I don’t even know who the guy is (a Ft.Lauderdale yacht broker who I would love to thank). I’m glad I didn’t quit and I’m sure the Skippy accountants are too. I would also like to add that we drivers can help here by welcoming new drivers and making them a part of our world. To be honest I do see a lot of this happening and that is a good thing.

I could go on all night with this stuff but I am sure most of you are bored stiff by now. My point is that things can be done that cost very little money to create loyalty and continuity to this race series. Everyone wins. We drivers get more people signing up so we can expect to have more variety in the tracks we drive and the more competitive the races will be, which ups the game for everyone. Skippy, of course, wins because they get to collect more money from more people who are committed to continuing to race. The things I have written are not, by a long shot, the only things that can be done. This is just scratching the surface. I would like to challenge the marketing dept. to come up with better things. Run these things by established drivers to see what they think. I am also going to post this on the Team Juicy website and would like to encourage everyone to put in their two bits. We have an incredibly diverse number of very successful people driving with us who got successful by coming up with great ideas. How about sharing them. Especially you new drivers. What was your experience like and how could it have been made better? Skies the limit here. No bad ideas and all that rot.

Okay, blah blah blah. Enough said. I need to go pack for Laguna where I’m sure it will be sunny and 70 degrees (one can dream). I look forward to a packed grid also. No dinner plans have been made for Saturday night but we will work on it. Finally there are only two race weekends left and we have nothing for the auction. Start thinking about what you can donate. Thanks for putting up with my ranting. I hope it makes some difference. See you in a few days.

Tom Roberts

Last edited by sydude; 03-02-2007 at 12:01 PM. Reason: fixed html formatting
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Old 02-26-2007
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Slowhands Slowhands is offline
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Hey Tom:
You probably drive faster mad.
As far as I am concerned, this is the most incisive analysis of what's holding Skippy back that I have read. Every point is spot on. And you are right, you are just scratching the surface. To have even more of an impact, I personally think you should find out who at Mazda is the Skippy liaison, and send this to them as well. I would think that they would have a vested interest in building up the West, given their name is all over Laguna.

My responses, point-by-point:

1. T-hill: Yes, I had a great time at Sebring (who wouldn't, given the weekend I had ) but I for one would have been at T-hill had the schedule been a little more forgiving. Just couldn't make 2 consecutive Skippy weekends on opposite coasts work with the rest of my life. And wet is just a free car-control clinic! It sounds like it was great and I'm sorry I couldn't be there.

2. You: thanks for leading. You have a talent for writing and putting a rag together, keep it up. The technical articles you've gotten instructors to write have been essential to developing my driving. And editorially, you don't pull any punches-- kudos for that. I look forward to getting my copy, and the segments you post on Team Juicy.

3. Team Juicy: A brilliant website and community. I got over my own trepidations of trying to "crash" the clique (being a newbie, I thought it was just for the heavy hitters) and signed on in November. Although heavily populated with Eastern/Midwest drivers, it's a "big tent." From what I have seen from my short time there, what holds it together is the very obvious passion every one shares for this sport. That is there in spades. And I for one enjoy what the Western drivers bring to it. I actually didn't notice any geographic cliquiness (is that a word?) until you brought it up. I think making the "Western Blip" part of it was a great move that has enhanced the site. It has become a sort of one stop shop for the entire Skippy community.

4. Everything you say about Skippy's internal marketing to developing drivers is dead on target. As a driver who has gone from complete greenhorn to somewhat respectable in the course of a year, I couldn't agree with you more. I crashed a car heavily twice- once at Laguna in my second race weekend, and later at Lime Rock. At Laguna, it was you who gave me the perspective I needed to get beyond that embarrassing event. At the time, I knew it was the result of inexperience, so I wasn't on the verge of quitting, but nevertheless, you helped me not to feel like the worst driver in the world by sharing your own experience. When a driver who is clearly quick does that, it makes a difference to a newbie (he talked to me! ). Having you mentor me through that experience made me feel more normal. At LRP, it was JP who actually talked me out of leaving right then and there, never to return (I had been in the car enough at that point to question my ability to do this--that long slide off the Downhill over wet grass watching the tire wall come at you at speed makes you think about a lot of things!) But that was mano a mano, one passionate enthusiast to another. No official Skippy person came around to "debrief" me. I am in total agreement that that should be part of the Skippy process in a big incident, especially involving a new driver.

5. Race news: As a driver who got his first win at Sebring, it has been TORTURE waiting for the news article on the website. Yes, we LOVE to see our names in print, imagining it's on par with the articles in Autosport on JPM and Alonso. And reading about it helps us relive the awesome ups and downs this sport can bring. It's just basic psychology. And cardinal sin-- there is STILL no article on the Homestead weekend. I spent good money and passion on the track down there and had some great dices with friends-- I WANT to read about it!!!!! And frankly, it ticks me off that no one thinks its important enough to put up the article. And double ditto about the big race winners--it's nice to know, but you're right-- they're NOT PAYING CUSTOMERS ANY MORE. Know who your customers are, ALL of them-- Rule no. 1.

6. Discounts: Skippy is pretty good with the discounts on schools, but giving new drivers in the Race Series discounts on upcoming events is a needed step. The first race weekend is not enough. This is too difficult a sport. More incentives are needed to nurse people through the early stages. And, I hate to say this, but 10% does NOT feel like a discount. 20% is the minimum where it actually FEELS like a discount. And for a discount to be a discount from the customer's viewpoint, it has to FEEL like one. (50% would be great, but I don't see it happening!) And possibly more important: thank your LONGSTANDING drivers for their loyalty by giving them some discounts as well.

Keep ranting Tom. It's not a rant if it makes sense.
(Is that profound or what?!)
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Old 02-26-2007
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gmg321 gmg321 is offline
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Good luck!
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Old 02-26-2007
grady192 grady192 is offline
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Since Tom asked for experiences and ideas well, here are mine.
My first race weekend I didn't know a soul. I was headed back to the hotel for another night of nothing when Ashlei Newkirk, George Ebel and Gary (can't remember last name) invited me to dinner. Had the worst Italian food ever but loved every minute of it. I felt welcome like I was one of the 'family'. That and continued correspondence are some of the very few reasons that I came back for more after a demoralizing weekend (I never wanted to look at a race car again). I consider myself lucky that I met these folks and am grateful that they decided to include the new guy, however how many others have left without intervention.
Maybe corporate thinks that the drivers are their best means for keeping new folks coming back. Who better to bring newbies into the fold and keep them there than the people your living the dream with. That has truth to it but at the same time it's nice to hear from the people running the show. Although it would be another task for the series administrators, warm calling new drivers once a month or even once every six months (I think) would go along way to keep folks from sliding through the cracks. Don't make it a sales call or anything that sounds like one but of interest into that persons racing life. Everyone wants to be wanted. : )
I had asked for a mentor my first weekend at Sebring. I arrived and found I had been orphaned. I had not been given a name as to who it would be so I didn't even know who to ask for. My cluelessness must have been obvious because Jeff Kaiser came over and asked who my mentor was. Upon telling him my situation he adopted me as his mentee. Going from lost to having a compass to refer to made a huge difference. (Thanks Jeff) A well defined mentor program that extends beyond the first weekend would grow the family as well as bolster someone who may have had a not so good, first time out.
Building the foundation:
Would a planned event outside of a race weekend be feasible? Something like allumni events where new graduates get to mingle with the ones who have gone before. I would think that most, especially the new, would bring friends/family with them who may not at first be interested in the sport but may be after a night of 'racing fellowship' thus not bringing in one but who knows how many. (hmmmm could have opposite effect as well).lol
I feel far removed from the stories of A list professional drivers. I find it far more interesting to read about people I have met and raced with. Detailed articles of the latest race weekends are great marketing tools for the company. The more names being used means that many more people emailing or directing their friends to the stories on the website.
-
If SB wanted to kick it up a notch not to mention create some headaches for themselves. Would it be possible to create a sort of lay-away plan or an account that you could have a percent of your paycheck debited to like a 401, only after taxes. If I had the option of having money go into an account that I don't necessarily see I know I could add another race weekend to my year. I am limited in my participation purely because of expense and never ending house projects. This could be good for folks like me but don't know if SB wants to go into the banking business.
Thats all for now, sorry to be so long winded.
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Old 02-27-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Great straight ahead Blip Tom with nice follow up by Harsha & Grady.

My indoctrination into Skippy racing came at the very start of the mentor program more than 3 years ago and it made a huge difference in overcoming my first race jitters. At that first weekend I also met Sy, Michael Auriemma, Donald MacDonald, Jim Craige, Gerardo Bonilla and some others who were at the core of TJR from the beginning. I had no idea TJR would become my virtual clubhouse and therapeutic writing seminar. In many ways TJR became the continuation of my mentor program as my joys and concerns were celebrated and addressed.

Harsha Sen's recent enthusiastic participation reminds me of my early days when no post went uncommented on! Keep up the good work Harsha!

Your observation that TJR is inhabited by especially passionate SBRS racers is right on the money. More than a year ago we too felt the site was misperceived as being just for a small group of Eastern racers and made a conscious effort to reach out to all regions to participate and use the site as a resource to air their concerns and share their joy of the SBRS process. There has been an increase in participation from all parts of the country since then and at every event we continue to invite new racers to check us out and use TJR as a resource.

Harsha is a great example of someone grabbing the bull by the horns and wrestling it to the ground. He's become a strong voice on TJR because of his passion for the sport and it was great seeing him win his first race this past week at Sebring. It is hard to understand why they've not put up any race reports on the Skip Barber site a full week after the event and also easy to understand how that lapse in follow-up makes regional racers feel under valued.

The company heads have a love/hate relationship with TJR. They love to covertly use TJR as a living breathing customer survey on subjects like race weekends, mechanical problems and the new car because we are the best place to take the pulse of their most passionate and loyal customers. They are also loath to acknowledge or encourage our existance because they can't control or edit out content. We tell it like it is and get it right most of the time even when our rants get loud.

We know we are doing a good job when a Skippy town meeting is opened with... "Now I don't want anything said in here tonight to turn up on Team Juicy tomorrow!..." And if imitation is the sincerest form of flattery our instructor gallery created such a positive buzz that the company created its own version on their site and then discouraged instructors from posting bio's on our site! Ours is still better!

This is the place where gripes can be chewed over as well as good drives celebrated.

Most of us have already raved about the effects of the Hansford (Hamster) device introduced at Sebring this past week. (Why did it take 2 years to introduce this dirt cheap modification?) Few have brought up the dearth of failed half-shafts. (I had two fail, one during a lapping day and one during my first race while leading) Sebring was also hard on transmissions and I had a second mechanical dnf in race 2 with a badly slipping transmission in race #2.

From where I sit those failures aren't due to mechanics, instructors or testers who all bent over backwards to make my weekend wonderful. Those failures were due to management policies that understaff race weekends and seek out low price over quality in replacement parts. They will never acknowledge or discuss any of this officially because of fear of liability lawsuits but we have an obligation to bring these issues up and hold their feet to the fire so they know what we as customers are thinking and feeling.

So if you're a new racer, after you've lurked around and seen all the good content here, step out from behind the curtain and tell us about yourself, jump into the discussions and tell us what you think. The more voices we have participating here the more power we all have to shape the product and performance of the company.

We all started out nervous, excited and scared and for those of us who have stuck around we're still nervous, excited and scared... We just have more fun ways of phrasing it now.
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Last edited by dalyduo; 02-27-2007 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 02-27-2007
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Rosso Rosso is offline
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBobN20
... The track is easy to get to. Drive one hour
north of the
ffice:smarttags" />Sacramento airport and you hit the exciting metropolis of
Willows, home of the.....well.....okay basically a truck stop. ...
The track and facilities are first rate... Now for the bad news. We only had 20 drivers show up...I’m going to admit to a bit of personal frustration here. I started this rag last year in an attempt to build up the numbers in the West Coast Series so we would have enough strength to tell the Corporates back east where we wanted to drive. ...can only fill a weekend if it is at Laguna...Tom Roberts



Man, I think a big part of the problem is that Laguna is just so popular. First, It runs 12 months a year, so it's easy to fit in a busy schedule.

Second, but maybe as important, the Monterey-Carmel area is SO appealling to spouses and significant others. A weekend dining and shopping in Carmel has an appeal to her a weekend in Danville, VA, or Mansfield, OH, or even my beloved Elkhart Lake can't compete with.


Third, relative to the rest of North America, the weather there is NEVER bad! Just before the first time I went, a February event, I was corresponding with an online Bay area aquaintence from the Jaguar XK list and he commented that "it got kind of chilly down there this time of year". I checked a weather website and the lows were in the 50's. That same day here in Louisville it was 10 F and an ice storm left an inch of ice on the cars outside.

For these reasons I've done three events there (2 day Adv sch twice, + a lapping day) despite the fact it's a 4,600 mile round trip .

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Last edited by Rosso; 02-27-2007 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 02-27-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

I can't say much about this subject other than I hope we all keep up the good fight, and that a light bulb will eventually go off where it matters. I could write endlessly about wasted Skippy potential in so many respects, but I don't think it will do any good, other than getting this site and myself even further as persona non grata. Unbelievable, sad and just plain dumb.
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Old 02-27-2007
TomBobN20 TomBobN20 is offline
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Thanks for the comments and excellent additions to this subject you guys. One of the things I find really fascinating is that the corporate boys have a problem with anything that goes on in this website. Imagine owning a business and having a source for constant, honest feedback. You may not like everything you read but you really get to know what the customers are thinking, feeling and wanting. And this one doesn't cost them a cent. The intentions of both this website and the Blip is to make racing with the company of Skip Barber better for everyone, that can only mean more profit for the company. If there is, indeed, an adversarial relationship between the corporate guys at Skip Barber, the Team Juicy community and myself as the author of the Blip, it is not our intention to create or perpetuate this atmosphere (I assume I can speak for the TJ participants on this). Aaron, George, we're on you side. We want your company to thrive so we can continue to play with each other in this crazy sport. Why not encourage Skippy staff involvement on this site? It just creates more loyalty in the company and a greater sense of family. Again a better bottom line for Skp Barber Racing. I've gotten a lot of emails from people saying they enthusiastically agree with the message of the most recent Blip. Most interesting, though, are the messages from people who have been around Skippy the longest. Sadly, the sentiment among the veterans is they've said it all before, it's gone nowhere and they're tried of trying. It's almost like they are saying stop being so naive, Tom, nothing is going to change. I agree with Sy, that is sad. I am baffled by the whole thing, to be honest. I'm not sure what it takes to slap these folks upside the head hard enough before they wake up to the fact that we are not their adversaries. I suppose all we can do is stay in their face and hope over time things will shift. What better time than now with the new partnership with Mazda. So at the risk of beng added to the persona non grata list (I suppose I am already there, oh well, it appears to be a great group of people) I would like to ask Aaron, George and anyone else in the Skippy heirarchy what they need from us to improve our relationship and open the lines of communication. Hopefully you guys are reading this thread and would be willing to join it in response. (Okay, so I am still being naive. It could happen). If not it is just another lost opportunity to bridge an unnecessary gap.
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Old 02-27-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowhands
To have even more of an impact, I personally think you should find out who at Mazda is the Skippy liaison, and send this to them as well.
Harsha, that is a great idea. Maybe they are already watching this channel.
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Old 02-27-2007
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Talking Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

This thread has so much to say. I have had the pleasure of a great first race weekend. Thanks to MY mentor Lime Rock Racer. Chris called me the week before and looked me up at the track. Gave me some quick advice, went to Qualify, and he dropped me like a stone. "No more mentoring for you !!" Just kidding Chris, can't wait for the Glen this year.
The instructors were the show. Each one made a genuine effort to make me feel welcome. Being labeled "slightly twisted" made me feel all the more welcome.
I did receive the "Here is your crash damage bill." meet and retreat. So I know the embarassment of standing alone and feeling foolish for my off road adventure.
Yes I found the regular drivers to have a clique. But I also found the way into the clique was simple. Just stick out your hand an introduce yourself. And you are in.
I may have an advantage here though, as I meet a lot of people cold and have to get them to warm up quickly.
As for the Skip Management; We already know what makes us want to come back. Those crazy personalities(instructors) and the other Walter Mitties who come to the race weekends. Introduce the new people around and don't be timid about getting on this website.
Today they announced the Regional Series Schedule and I hope to meet all of you at the Glen this May, again.
I have found the staff at Skip Barber, competant about putting my name in for an activity. I didn' get any feedback from them and they never contacted me after any event to see how I liked it or even to see if I would like to sign up for another.
The people I only know from this site(and I don't really know you) have piqued my interest to come back and meet you crazy bastards face to face. I was also hoping for a little consideration on the track but I know that ain't gonna happen.
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Old 02-28-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Sy, it's a shame you feel that way.
By the way, it was great to see you at Daytona.
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Old 02-28-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

I, for one, don't think that an improved internal marketing effort directed towards existing race series drivers would make an huge difference in the total number of competitors in the race series. Yes, it might help at the margins, and perhaps we might hang on to a few more drivers who have a big crash early in their Skippy Careers if a concerted effort were made to reach out and provide some support and reassurance in such cases. But I think there are some fundamental issues that make it difficult for Skip Barber to greatly increase their customer base.

First, I think the general public vastly overestimates the dangers of racing at the amateur level. I've seen statistics that put racing at about the same level of risk as horseback riding, and about 20 times safer than piloting a private plane. When I cite these statistics to friends and co-workers, most would have assumed the reverse, i.e. that racing was 20 times more dangerous than flying the private plane. I'm guessing that Skip Barber loses quite a sizable chunk of its potential market for this reason alone.

The second problem is that the Skip Barber Race Series occupies a difficult niche in the racing marketplace. One of their target markets is young professional wannabe drivers. These drivers show up for a year or two and spend a lot of money (or more accurately, their families spend a lot of money) on the Series, but then eventually move up to bigger and better things . . . . or wash out. . . . or become Skippy instructors . Another segment of drivers, very wealthy individuals, will often start their racing careers at Skip Barber, but then have the desire --and the resources-- to drive faster cars at more prestigious events. This segment also tends to run lots of Skippy Races for a year or two, but then disappear into the ranks of Grand Am, Vintage Cars, Pro Mazda, etc. rarely if ever to be seen again. That leaves a third segment of modestly wealthy racing enthusiasts, who become long term Race Series customers because you get more milage for your racing dollar with less hassle at Skip than any other alternative. Unfortunately, this last segment of customers --the most loyal ones at that-- are the ones who can only afford to buy the product being offered in limited quantities. And of course, racing is so expensive that even that loyal but relatively poor third segment of drivers comes from households in the top 5% of the U.S. income bracket.

When you add it all up, it is not a great business model. Indeed, given the number of students that SBRS has historically had to run through the three day school to end up with one new regular in the race series, and that fact that a number of these drivers soon move on to bigger and better things, it's amazing that Skip Barber has been able to keep the series going as a viable proposition for a full thirty years.

Given these fundamental issues, I really don't know what Skip Barber could be doing differently that would dramatically increase the race series driver base. Rick Rosso could post a zillion articles about the regional races on the Skip Barber web site, but do you think that's really going to mean much to drivers who can run the Rolex 24 and get television exposure if they do well? The school could try to run sexy, faster cars, but these of course, cost a lot more to run, so although you might hang onto some of your wealthlier clients, you'd price out many others (The Challenge Series, run with the Barber Dodge Pro Series cars during the off season in the early 2000s, was too expensive for most of us at $10K per race weekend, and thus lasted only two years). The school could also try to lower costs, thereby increasing their margins, or allowing them to lower prices to attract more customers, but we all know from recent experience that Skip Barber can only go so far in that direction before the quality of the racing suffers, and existing customers start to defect.

So yes, a more concerted effort at A-1 customer relationship management might help Skip Barber convert a few people who only race once or twice into regular series participants. But the series has improved it treatment of existing customers over the years (overrev charges are ancient history, hospitality has improved markedly since my early days in the series, the driver mentor program is a great recent innovation, and 5 years ago there were NO race reports --even tardy ones-- on the Skippy web site). None of these changes have had anywhere near the impact on race weekend enrollment as simple fluctuations in the health of the economy (those big 75-80 person race weekends you hear about all date back to the heady internet bubble years of the late '90s).

Bottom line, I just don't think the world is flooded with potential Skippy customers who have been driven away by inefficient marketing.
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Old 03-03-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Peter,

I know and respect that your observations come from many years of first hand experience with the company (And yes most people think racing is far more dangerous than it is) but I also think some of those observations perfectly embody a mindset that causes the company to stagnate and waffle rather than make positive creative decisions.

What you want in a specialized service company like Skip Barber is vision and leadership that inspires those providing the service to create a better product and experience for their customers every day. I think the Mazda deal is a great empowerment on many levels right now and there is better attitude and more spring in the step of instructors and staff as a result.

Having said that, there is also great frustration with the halting three steps forward two steps back approach to decision-making that makes people scratch their heads with wonder.

The same company that made the wonderful deal with Mazda hasn't yet made a decision about a new race car that was supposed to be made many months ago. They also took two years to attach 4 dollar alluminum Hansford devices to the race cars that improve the quality of our racing experience by a huge factor even though they'd tested them and knew about the effect it would have two years ago! Go figure.

You get the sense that good things happen at SBRS in spite of management at least as often as because of it. I think that is the sadness that Sy and many of us feel. Good things are happening but there are regular momentum killers in the decision making process that keep things from moving to the next level.

Easy for me to say from the comfort of my keyboard. Perhaps I'm being unfair. Just grist for the windmill.
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Old 03-03-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalyduo
The same company that made the wonderful deal with Mazda hasn't yet made a decision about a new race car that was supposed to be made many months ago.
Hey, look on the bright side... now you have to take me to PETER LUGERS!!! (we need a 'yummy yummy' smilie!)
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Old 03-05-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

4 DOLLARS YOU WISH ALUMINUM IS ABOUT THE SAME PRICE AS GOLD IN TODAYS MARKET. DONT BEND ONE OR YOU WILL SEE HOW EXPENSIVE THEY ARE.
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Old 03-05-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

No No!!! Sy I said Peter Ludwig's!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sydude
Hey, look on the bright side... now you have to take me to PETER LUGERS!!! (we need a 'yummy yummy' smilie!)

Whatever it cost Sid it's a mastercard moment for the racers... Priceless (But of course we will pay!)

I was just quoting JP's reference. On the smiles per dollar scale it's still pretty good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by badgersid
4 DOLLARS YOU WISH ALUMINUM IS ABOUT THE SAME PRICE AS GOLD IN TODAYS MARKET. DONT BEND ONE OR YOU WILL SEE HOW EXPENSIVE THEY ARE.
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Old 03-05-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

PAT YOURS ARE FREE I HAVE A BIG INVENTORTY FOR MY FRIENDS.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN TO GO OUT AND CRASH.

CANT WAIT FOR THE EASTERN OPENER I MISS YOU ALL
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Old 03-05-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Talked to Todd Snyder quite a bit this weekend about the subject of this Blip and the effects. He says it did hit home and George wants to make some serious changes. Yes I know it's all been said before but you have to assume at some point it will happen and I am choosing to assume that now. What's the alternative? If we give up the prospects aren't pretty. A lot of you have gone through a lot more of this than I have and I imagine the frustration level is off the scale. But if you can find it in you to email George (or me and I will forward it) to make suggestions now is a good time.

I also talked to Todd about the antagonistic attitude toward this website. Apparently when Aaron first came on board he didn't like this site and did not allow employees to participate (Aaron, if you are out there feel free to comment). Todd said George is rethinking this and realizes this website is not only valuable but has contributed significantly to the companies success.

No doubt there is a lot of skepticism that anything will change. Time will tell. Since it's the best game in town it seems like it is worth a bit of effort to make it the way we want it. It really doesn't take that many drivers to fill a grid. We had three groups of Sportsman drivers this weekend and only 11 Champ drivers. Yes it is a specialized niche but it would not take that much to have 60 consistant drivers out of the millions of people in the West. Anyway I am going to keep pushing toward that because I am sure it is possible. It's been done before so why not again.
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Old 03-06-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBobN20
I also talked to Todd about the antagonistic attitude toward this website. Apparently when Aaron first came on board he didn't like this site and did not allow employees to participate (Aaron, if you are out there feel free to comment). Todd said George is rethinking this and realizes this website is not only valuable but has contributed significantly to the companies success.
Many companies spend a lot of market research money to get the kind of info that is available for free here. It would be interesting to know how much of the total revenues for racing series events last year came from persons who are active participants on the TJR site. My guess is that it would amount to a pretty good chunk of change and a significant percentage of the overall revenues too.
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Old 03-06-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Peter Tucker's posting deserves rereading. Thoughtful as always, he's identified elements of the equation that merit more consideration than they've been given.

When Tom posted his T-hill Follow-up by email, I responded:

Wonderful ideas, few new, but wonderful. As my grandfather said: Many things that should go without saying have to be said many times before they go. Instructors usually do what you suggest, but your ideas for corporate marketing, race reporting, etc. could be systematically applied to advantage.

Aaron and George are on that email thread and Aaron responded to my response - they are reading, listening and learning. Each of us individually and many of us collectively hold and have expressed concerns about management. But management is a slow moving target - save Todd - so easy to hit. Hard to see how more race car seat time for senior management wouldn't help, both with speed and our sense they have a better basis of understanding issues vital to customer satisfaction. Let them break a half-shaft Sebring) or have a clutch die (Road Atlanta) and let them improve and ultimately podium - they'd understand at a level they don't now.

We bitch that it took 2 years to get the Hanford device done. When Matt and Revere couldn't get away from me at VIR in the 3 test cars 2 years ago, I knew it was a winner. But how many of us have had obvious winners that took 2 years or more to bring to fruition in our businesses? Thanks again to Todd, Matt, Sid and certainly others who made it happen.

Back to Peter's perspective: He's been around long enough to see what he's described and thought a lot about it. Management needs to improve, TJR website is a wonderful (unique in my experience) source of customer feedback - I hope SBR will dump their present surveys that are offensive - and we can all be thankful that despite problems, we are still racing in the best series extant.

Thanks Peter.


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Old 03-07-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

JOHN as usual concise and to the point. Well said
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Old 03-09-2007
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Lightbulb Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Hope they are reading our posts, I know many at SB do, hopefully any good info makes it high up the SBRS food chain.

Let's see if they are reading this:

Now that the Hanford is here to stay and it significantly affects racing dynamics,
here's one idea for a new clinic I would sign up for:

Your New Hanford - Care and Feeding Clinic
A day spent learning all about draft craft (possible name for clinic?), classroom prelim and lots of track time. Learn strategery of drafting, how it affects brake points, passing, how to avoid being passed, discussion of different track strategies, etc. Would be useful even after new car arrives.

whatcha say?

I really didn't know where to post this, covers 2 points so I copied in Drafting Thread, pls go there for drafting clinic replies, we'll keep this thread for the Western Blip/Is Anybody Out There Listening theme

thanks
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Last edited by cdh; 03-09-2007 at 03:07 PM.
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  #23  
Old 03-09-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Neat corporate idea. Draft Craft classes best done at Road America with 3 long straights or Daytona, but VIR, Watkins Glen, and Mt. Tremblant would also serve.
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Old 03-09-2007
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Re: Western Blip T-hill Followup

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Greist
Neat corporate idea. Draft Craft classes best done at Road America with 3 long straights or Daytona, but VIR, Watkins Glen, and Mt. Tremblant would also serve.
Right on. Also Sebring ("where it started"), Homestead, Road Atlanta, possibly Mid-Ohio. Tremblant? I'm trembling at the thought!
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